[Motomatt]

Thanks, everyone for all the excellent information.  Like many of you, I have a limited budget and am currently on the fence between the HE-500 and LCD2r2.  I currently have a Burson HA-160D attached to my stereo and an older Headroom Micro Amp and DAC stack attached to my PC (interestingly, I find I'm preferring the HD sound chip on my Gigabyte motherboard to the Headroom units -- Gigabyte has paid some attention to onboard sound!).  My question is this: who among you would ascribe a "sibiliant" quality to the highs on the HE-500s and what amp were you using when you arrived at that assessment?  Reason I ask is I have a hard time with sibiliance -- something I identified when experimenting with a set of Grado 225i phones -- and don't want to make an expensive mistake choosing between the HE-500s and the LCDs.
 
While I definitely like good bass, it's all about balance for me.  Truth be told, I think my ears will "adjust" to whatever cans I'm wearing -- found a lot to like even in my "lowly" Grados before hearing some astonishing cans at a ChiUniFi meet not too long ago.  So where the Grados were mid-range forward, with decent bass, they were ultimately too sibiliant for my ears.  Conversely, I found the Senn 650s a little too lacking in highs and a little too recessed elsewhere unless I really cranked them.  I want to hear everything that's there, but not in a clinical way like a Beyer T-1; just good overall detail with a more natural presentation.  
 
Thoughts?  Opinions?  Sorry for the newb questions, but trying to make the "right" decision the first time.

 

[MattTCG]

If you have the slightest problem with bright HP's go with the LCD. Even if you don't I'd still take the LCD. It's the most addictive enjoyable sound signature that I've heard. And yes I've owned the he500.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Thanks, everyone for all the excellent information.  Like many of you, I have a limited budget and am currently on the fence between the HE-500 and LCD2r2.  I currently have a Burson HA-160D attached to my stereo and an older Headroom Micro Amp and DAC stack attached to my PC (interestingly, I find I'm preferring the HD sound chip on my Gigabyte motherboard to the Headroom units -- Gigabyte has paid some attention to onboard sound!).  My question is this: who among you would ascribe a "sibiliant" quality to the highs on the HE-500s and what amp were you using when you arrived at that assessment?  Reason I ask is I have a hard time with sibiliance -- something I identified when experimenting with a set of Grado 225i phones -- and don't want to make an expensive mistake choosing between the HE-500s and the LCDs.
 
While I definitely like good bass, it's all about balance for me.  Truth be told, I think my ears will "adjust" to whatever cans I'm wearing -- found a lot to like even in my "lowly" Grados before hearing some astonishing cans at a ChiUniFi meet not too long ago.  So where the Grados were mid-range forward, with decent bass, they were ultimately too sibiliant for my ears.  Conversely, I found the Senn 650s a little too lacking in highs and a little too recessed elsewhere unless I really cranked them.  I want to hear everything that's there, but not in a clinical way like a Beyer T-1; just good overall detail with a more natural presentation.  
 
Thoughts?  Opinions?  Sorry for the newb questions, but trying to make the "right" decision the first time.

I'd probably say the HE500's are the ones for you. They are more balanced in regards to bass and treble than the LCD2's. The LCD2s are more natural sounding but this may not be what you are looking for If you thought the highs on the 650 were lacking. I've never heard any sibilants with the HE500's. They do have a little peak in the upper mids than can sound a little hot on certain music but nowhere near Grado styley. Anyhow the HE500's are cheaper, try them and you shouldn't lose much on selling them if you want to try the LCD2's instead.

 

[preproman]

Quote:

If you have the slightest problem with bright HP's go with the LCD. Even if you don't I'd still take the LCD. It's the most addictive enjoyable sound signature that I've heard. And yes I've owned the he500.

 
 
The LCD-2.2s are a very sudctive headphone.

 

[paradoxper]

For those of you who do use vegan pads. Are you certain there is a discernible difference in SQ from the leather pads?
The mind can play trickery...

 

[dleblanc343]

Quote:

Thanks, everyone for all the excellent information.  Like many of you, I have a limited budget and am currently on the fence between the HE-500 and LCD2r2.  I currently have a Burson HA-160D attached to my stereo and an older Headroom Micro Amp and DAC stack attached to my PC (interestingly, I find I'm preferring the HD sound chip on my Gigabyte motherboard to the Headroom units -- Gigabyte has paid some attention to onboard sound!).  My question is this: who among you would ascribe a "sibiliant" quality to the highs on the HE-500s and what amp were you using when you arrived at that assessment?  Reason I ask is I have a hard time with sibiliance -- something I identified when experimenting with a set of Grado 225i phones -- and don't want to make an expensive mistake choosing between the HE-500s and the LCDs.
 
While I definitely like good bass, it's all about balance for me.  Truth be told, I think my ears will "adjust" to whatever cans I'm wearing -- found a lot to like even in my "lowly" Grados before hearing some astonishing cans at a ChiUniFi meet not too long ago.  So where the Grados were mid-range forward, with decent bass, they were ultimately too sibiliant for my ears.  Conversely, I found the Senn 650s a little too lacking in highs and a little too recessed elsewhere unless I really cranked them.  I want to hear everything that's there, but not in a clinical way like a Beyer T-1; just good overall detail with a more natural presentation.  
 
Thoughts?  Opinions?  Sorry for the newb questions, but trying to make the "right" decision the first time.

I would recommend the HE500's for you if you want a more versatile and balanced sounding headphone; but it's a toss-up depending on what you listen to. If you're basing sibilance on Grado sr225's and beyers; the hifiman should be no problem (they're actually not sibilant at all on most amps). I prefer the HE-500's to the lcd2 by a small margin, and they're a tad more comfy/ not as expensive (not as pretty though)
 
One thing though, if you manage to get your hands on LCD-3 pads, I would definitely take the lcd2 r2 with LCD-3 pads; I think it sounds quite a bit better and brings you closer to lcd3 level. But again, getting the pads is tough.

 

[satanigatan]

I've read conflicting statements on the Vegan Pads.
 
I had read they are not soft, and just add more firmness (because the leather flattens under pressure). For me, the biggest issue with the LCD-2's are the weight of where the pads sit on the side of my jaw. So "more firm" sounds like it would be worse? 
Quote:

According to others, the vegan pads just add comfort but don't change the sound signature, even the mids. But it they alleviated some clamp and added comfort then they would be worth it. 

 

[TMRaven]

Does anybody know how well the LCD pads retain their shape over time?  My biggest pet peeve with headphones is how earpads become compressed over time, or deformed. 

 

[MattTCG]

I can't say for sure. I feel plenty of clamp on my jaw like your describe. Have you tried to stretch the headband? Most of the boys on the lcd2 thread say that the vegan pads are more comfortable. In fact I haven't read that one person found them less comfortable. That's a good sign in my book. 

 

[satanigatan]

Indeed. These headphones are "delicious" not to sound too corny. The deep bass, the sound signature is liquid(y) smooth. Very musical and pleasing. 
 
If I had any gripe, it's that I do miss some of the crispness of instrument separation of cans like the HD-600/650. With the LCD-2s everything more flows together as one. I'm doing a terrible job explaining what I mean. But basically, LCD-2's are something I'll always keep. And in fact, they will probably be my go to headphones for a lot of listening. I find them to be the most enjoyable/fun headphones I've ever had.
 
But I couldn't just use them as my only headphone. That's why I would always keep something like an HD-600 in my lineup. I'm actually looking at going to electrostat next. They are way too expensive for me at the moment. Although STAX has an entry system for $850 that I might consider (not sure how good their bottom models are). But I think an electrostat would be a good compliment to the LCD-2 (for me, at least). A very musical headphone + a very detailed/fast headphone. 
Quote:

If you have the slightest problem with bright HP's go with the LCD. Even if you don't I'd still take the LCD. It's the most addictive enjoyable sound signature that I've heard. And yes I've owned the he500.

 

[satanigatan]

My memory could be failing me. To be honest, I read about them a long time ago when they first introduced them. And I don't even remember if I read that correctly. *slaps head*.
 
I personally don't have any issues with the LCD-2s. I mean, yeah the clamp is there. But I don't get headaches or pains from wearing them. They are just a slight uncomfort to me, but I suppose that is the negative trade off with Orthos weighing so much.
 
I'll look into the Vegan pads now, sounds like something worth looking into.
Quote:

I can't say for sure. I feel plenty of clamp on my jaw like your describe. Have you tried to stretch the headband? Most of the boys on the lcd2 thread say that the vegan pads are more comfortable. In fact I haven't read that one person found them less comfortable. That's a good sign in my book. 

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

I've read conflicting statements on the Vegan Pads.
 
I had read they are not soft, and just add more firmness (because the leather flattens under pressure). For me, the biggest issue with the LCD-2's are the weight of where the pads sit on the side of my jaw. So "more firm" sounds like it would be worse? 

What you're describing is the clamping pressure. This won't be alleviated with either pads. It's almost just part of the fit of the LCD's.
You can however, try stretching the headband to lessen the clamp force.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Indeed. These headphones are "delicious" not to sound too corny. The deep bass, the sound signature is liquid(y) smooth. Very musical and pleasing. 
 
If I had any gripe, it's that I do miss some of the crispness of instrument separation of cans like the HD-600/650. With the LCD-2s everything more flows together as one. I'm doing a terrible job explaining what I mean. But basically, LCD-2's are something I'll always keep. And in fact, they will probably be my go to headphones for a lot of listening. I find them to be the most enjoyable/fun headphones I've ever had.
 
But I couldn't just use them as my only headphone. That's why I would always keep something like an HD-600 in my lineup. I'm actually looking at going to electrostat next. They are way too expensive for me at the moment. Although STAX has an entry system for $850 that I might consider (not sure how good their bottom models are). But I think an electrostat would be a good compliment to the LCD-2 (for me, at least). 

Yeah that's the one so-called flaw of Audeze headphones, is that they tend to compact all the layers and thus the perceived separation tends to be a bit congested. It's probably a side-product of its damping scheme. That's also why many planar lovers prefer Hifimans, it's because those are extremely open in design and therefore have some insane separation levels.

 

[paradoxper]

Quote:

Does anybody know how well the LCD pads retain their shape over time?  My biggest pet peeve with headphones is how earpads become compressed over time, or deformed. 

It depends on what kind of time-frame you're referring to. Personally, I haven't found any compression with the LCD-2's. The LCD-3's are still fairly new.
Comparatively my MD ear pads have already started to show signs of wear. So the quality of the LCD pads is quite good.

 

[satanigatan]

Yeah.
 
I'm really a casual audiophile, so I always ask people to take what I say with a grain of salt. Like a toddler trying to explain something adults already know! Hah. But this forum has always been good to me, in this regard.
 
And you are right. I think it's both the plus and downside to the Audeze sound. I can totally understand why some would love it, or some hate it. I mean, I'm someone that loves my Audeze, and even I wish at times there was more separation in the instruments. I'll be listening to something, and just love how lush the music is. But then my brain recognizes that there is more separation that should be there. And if you are someone that really values separation, and especially doesn't like the pros of the audeze sound, I would totally understand why they would not like these cans. I personally love the pros of the Audeze sound. Very much so, hence why I choose them to listen to most of my music.
 
But as I said, no way I could only keep these as my only can. I'm currently using the HD-600 as a second can, and want to expand more into electrostat to compliment them. 
 
Quote:

Yeah that's the one so-called flaw of Audeze headphones, is that they tend to compact all the layers and thus the perceived separation tends to be a bit congested. It's probably a side-product of its damping scheme. That's also why many planar lovers prefer Hifimans, it's because those are extremely open in design and therefore have some insane separation levels.