[girlystephanie]

[size=medium]You all heard about it: it takes 20% of your effort to get 80% of the result. Getting the last 20% needs 80% more effort.[/size]
 
[size=medium]My question is how does it relate to headphone?[/size]
 
[size=medium]I have read all over this forum that this XYZ $50 headphone beats lots of $150 headphones. And then that this particular ZYX $150 headphone beats those $300 headphones. And it goes on and on up the ladder like this until we reach the T1, HD800, LCD2 and the like.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Let’s take an example: it seems unanimous that the 50$ Superlux HD668b is almost like a Beyerdynamic DT990. Someone may or may not like this V shaped signature, that’s not the point. My question is, if this signature is my thing, will the HD668b give me 80% of the goose bumps the DT990 can provides for a sixth of the price? OR… is there a minimum to spend to get some real goose bumps and the law of diminishing return only kicks-in over a certain range of price?[/size]
 
[size=medium]I know, really vague question and very relative to the taste and sensitivity of each person. And, I also know, nothing is better than trying it for ourselves which is what I intent to do next month at the Festival Son et Images in Montreal. Because I first need to find my prefered signature, which I don't know since I am looking for my first pair of headphone! I am use though to first class HiFi room systems. [/size]
 
[size=medium]This is just some food for thoughts.  Thank you for your contribution.[/size]
 
[size=medium]Stephanie[/size]

 

[christophrowley]

There'll always be headphones that are better value than their similarly priced counterparts so yes, jumping from a great $150 headphone to an adequate $300 headphone mightn't be the great an improvement. The best idea is to make big enough steps that you can go from high value product to high value product without dealing with the meh in the middle. With regards to goosebumps, that's never a linear thing. It might be in the last 5-10% that you really start to have a genuinely hair raising experience. They mightn't be the best value in terms of technical ability but if that's what it takes for the experience to suddenly come alive, than that's what it takes.
 
As for finding a signature you like, listen to as many 'phones as you can. If that means attending trade shows and meets, great, if it means buying some taster headphones, you might want to go for less expensive models that have similar signatures to the big boys. In some cases that isn't possible so you could go on blind luck and rely on a good return policy but it isn't the best option. 
 
Given that you say you're going to be using your headphones with high end hifi equipment, I guess you've been in this business a while and have reasonable experience in the speaker field. Decent headphones and decent speakers aren't so dissimilar. The same rules apply, so you shouldn't be too lost when it comes down to it. 
 
Best of luck.

 

[MattTCG]

For me, I'd prefer to have four pair of $200  headphones than one $800 pair. I enjoy the versatility of different brands that give different sound signatures, comfort level ect. Sure I'd like to own a high dollar set at some point, but for now I'm having a great time "learning" with these very good mid-fi selections. Right now I'm listening to Damien Rice on a pair of Beyer 990/600 and it's sounds unbelievably good. It sounds good on my d2k also but not this good. 

 

[bowei006]

I think it's due to lack of experience. most members have not heard a wide range of headphone's. and thus will bump the numbers up a lot. how many times do i hear that XB500's are worth $150 plus from consumers?....a lot.

 

[marts30]

I think a lot of it has to do with expectation, your expect expensive headphones to sound so great compared to the cheaper ones and you feel a little hollow when they're only a little better. Reverse psychology with the cheaper headphones, you don't expect as much and may be pleasantly surprised.
 
Definitely the case for me, I have downgraded for example, from the MS Pro to the MS2i (half the price) and I enjoy the MS2 a whole lot more.

 

[Eric_C]

Um, a lot of it's down to hype (including self-justification for purchases), and possibly a fair bit of placebo. Few of us get a chance to hear many headphones, and fewer still get to hear them side-by-side. Additionally, we don't generally factor in the brevity of audio memory and an understanding of how susceptible our minds are to suggestion (e.g. higher prices, better build quality, aesthetics), and it just becomes dangerously unreliable to go on opinions here. 
 
I'm as much a sucker as the next guy. I've had my Beyer 880's for 3 years now and they've never done me wrong, but that darned upgrade/sidegrade itch has me running around looking at lots of new headphones...and to be honest, I haven't been knocked off my socks yet by any of the rival products. -shrug- I guess being content would take much further in this hobby, and maybe it'll do you good too.
 
Just beware the many lemons in the headphone world.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Um, a lot of it's down to hype (including self-justification for purchases), and possibly a fair bit of placebo. Few of us get a chance to hear many headphones, and fewer still get to hear them side-by-side. Additionally, we don't generally factor in the brevity of audio memory and an understanding of how susceptible our minds are to suggestion (e.g. higher prices, better build quality, aesthetics), and it just becomes dangerously unreliable to go on opinions here. 

Which is why most of us end up being over-reliant on major headphone reviewers. Heh.

 

[Eric_C]

Quote:

Which is why most of us end up being over-reliant on major headphone reviewers. Heh.

So true. 
-le sob-

 

[stacker45]

All i know is my PS-500 give me 80% of the PS-1000 sound quality for a third of the price

 

[jeckyll]

Listening is subjective.  The only one who can answer the 'will this give me 80% of xyz' is the person listening.
 
The best thing you can do, is listen for yourself.  Try the headphones in an A/B type direct comparison and then see which is worth how much.
 
Even then, as your knowledge and taste of headphones & music changes over time, the answer may vary.  
 
To quote Mohammad Ali:
[size=medium]"The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life"[/size]
 

 

[MattTCG]

I have been burned by a few reviews on headphones that I thought would be a nice fit for me. I guess over time I get better at learning what I really like. I've learned that to really enjoy the music I don't need to spend a grand...about half that is plenty!!

 

[girlystephanie]

Very interesting replies. The wisdom is flying high here!
 
Thanks to all of your contribution. This is exactly what I was looking for. Something to ground myself.
 
Starting fresh in the headphone pond, I did find a usefull utility to all this review: I have developed an heaphone vocabulary to express myself to the vendor and I now have a more profound grasping of what I am listening at the store. This was real useful today. Oh, ya... I found out that our big local HiFi gear tradeshow attracts undreds of key players in the business, except the headphone players!!! Well, Sennheiser is the exception. Darn, there goes my hope to do some avid listening and comparaison. So, back from work, I stoped at a first hifi gear shop which had Grado and Sennheiser. Not only I now have a great imprint impression of a few models of both brands, I also can enumerate a precise things that I liked and disliked on each of them. Thanks in great part to this forum, I was very effective in my listening.
 
For now, no love at first sight. The Grado PS500 is spectacular at first, but the "in my head" soundstage is too much distracting and I am wondering about fatigue over the high. The HD650 is way more relax with an astonishing soundstage (well, I may found better along the way but, at this stage I didn't expect to hear this from an headphone). But I had to concentrate to much to appreciate what I was listening. It was somewhat not... engaging. But I suspect that it was under amped.
 
The perfect headphone for me would be able to be very technical if I chosse to listen and concentrate on a specific instrument or the appreciate the play of a musician, BUT IT MUST BE very engaging to the music to draw me into it as a whole as soon as I stop concentrating on a specific detail. And the timber should be as perfect as possible. We will see. I am only at the begining of this very nice adventure!
 
Thank again for your input in my minding preparation! I really appreciate it.
 

 

[Eric_C]

Did the store have a HD600? It might be that middle ground between a 650 and Grado that you're looking for, based on what I've read (i.e. have read that it's not as "relaxed" and un-engaging as the 650). 
Tried a 600 briefly in-store, run off a Meier 2Stepdance and I thought it was wonderful.

 

[Kernmac]

[size=12pt]Pareto's law or Principle - The 80-20 rule, [/size][size=12pt]isn’t the same as the[/size][size=12pt] law of diminishing returns.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]Diminishing Returns[/size]
[size=12pt]A yield rate that after a certain point fails to increase proportionately to additional outlays of capital or investments of time and/or labour.
Meaning, that after a certain point, increased investment doesn’t give a proportionate return.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]Pareto’s Principle (80-20 rule)[/size]
[size=12pt]80% of your sales will come from 20% of your clients etc.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]Business Examples[/size]

1. [size=12pt]80% of your profits come from 20% of your customers[/size]
2. [size=12pt]80% of your complaints come from 20% of your customers[/size]
3. [size=12pt]80% of your profits come from 20% of the time you spend[/size]
4. [size=12pt]80% of your sales come from 20% of your products[/size]
5. [size=12pt]80% of your sales are made by 20% of your sales staff[/size]

[size=12pt]Therefore, businesses should focus on the most effective areas and eliminate, ignore, delegate or re-train the rest, as appropriate.[/size]
 
[size=12pt]From a headphone perspective, diminishing returns suggests that after a certain point, paying more will not give you a proportionate improvement in sound quality, excluding all the other variables such as signature preference, comfort etc.[/size]
[size=12pt]Pareto’s law/principle would suggest something different, perhaps that 20% of the available headphones would please 80% of Headfiers, or maybe 80% of Headfier’s opinions are regurgitated from the experiences of the 20% that have actually heard the headphones they discuss/recommend.  Something like that anyway.[/size]

 

[girlystephanie]

Thanks Kermarc for the precision. True that I didn't open a dictionary or a wiki over this. My initial subject was then indeed the diminishing returns. OK, can I say then that XYZ headphone will bring me 80% of the sound of a big gun for only 20% of the price?

 
Nevertheless, I like your Pareto's principle and both your interpretations could certainly be applied to headphones and most every consumer product these days that rely on our five sences. People buy the flavor of the month or the next guru or public start endorsement. Then they become a prophet over it, probably to compensate for their lack of own jugement, to take confort out of it. 
 
Also thanks Eric for your suggestion. No, they didn't had the HD600. I'll put it on my try list along with the Denon, Beyerdynamic, AKG, etc. Darn, I would like to live in Tokyo or anyplace where they have all of these in one electronic mega store.
 
Have a great day everyone!