[sokolov91]

ah thanks for the clarification. 
 
Man, I am not one of these people who looks at these and thinks I am getting my moneys worth

 

[computerparts]

No problem. Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's a horrible unit. It's decent for what it is, but not a giant killer by any means IMO. For someone with redbook listening as a top priority, there are better values out there.

 

[sokolov91]

 
Quote:

No problem. Keep in mind, I'm not saying it's a horrible unit. It's decent for what it is, but not a giant killer by any means IMO. For someone with redbook listening as a top priority, there are better values out there.

Saying I had a grand to drop, new or old, what would you suggest other than the oppo (a dac is ok too), because the oppo has been put on a pedestal as a giant killer (then again, so have many things).
 
A friend told me that it is not much better than his Benchmark DAC, though.
 
I do like the fact it does DSD direct to analogue out, and plays every format (well almost) known to man. Plus for new bluray media it will be sweet.
 
CD are my top priority though.
 
What do you use yourself?
 
Also, if you don't mind, what exactly about the oppo makes it not a giant killer? Not enough detail?

 

[computerparts]

I'd always suggest used over new. It highly depends on your listening preferences. For a grand, you should be able to get:
 
Audio Research CD-2
Audio Research Dac 1, 2, or maybe even 3
Theta Gen Va dac (highly overlooked these days, originally sold for $5k)
Theta Miles
Mark Levinson No. 36
Lector CDP .6T
Timbre TT-1 dac
Audio Note dac 1.1x
Cary 303 or 302 I forget the exact model number
BAT VK-D5 if you get lucky, I have seen these go for below a grand although very seldom
 
There are others, but those are the ones I liked the most in your price range.
 
Others worthy of consideration but I have no personal experience with:
Opera Consonance CD-120 Linear
Jolida JD-100A
Shanling T100
 
Right now, I'm living with a Marantz DV9500. But prior to that I was using an mbl 1511D (originally sold for $10k). Next month I'm planning on acquiring an Ayon CD-3.
 
Let's get my definition of a giant killer out of the way first. IMO a giant killer is a component which costs less than but can compete or sound better than the reference level stuff. I would consider reference level equipment to be $2k+ used market prices for recent models and $1k+ for older models. Also IMO, reference level equipment should approach the sound quality of a good turn table or even live music. I have encountered a few giant killers, but all of them were more than a grand on the used market. Reference level equipment can differ in sound. But IMO they all have a certain refinement to the sound which lesser equipment just can't touch.
 
When I heard the stock Oppo, I was highly disappointed given all the rave reviews. IMO it is mechanical sounding, somewhat analytical, dry, lacks in spacial cues, and not very engaging. However, I did get the chance to listen to a highly modded Oppo and again IMO that can certainly be considered a giant killer.   
 

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

I'd always suggest used over new. It highly depends on your listening preferences. For a grand, you should be able to get:
 
Audio Research CD-2
Audio Research Dac 1, 2, or maybe even 3
Theta Gen Va dac (highly overlooked these days, originally sold for $5k)
Theta Miles
Mark Levinson No. 36
Lector CDP .6T
Timbre TT-1 dac
Audio Note dac 1.1x
Cary 303 or 302 I forget the exact model number
BAT VK-D5 if you get lucky, I have seen these go for below a grand although very seldom
 
There are others, but those are the ones I liked the most in your price range.
 
Others worthy of consideration but I have no personal experience with:
Opera Consonance CD-120 Linear
Jolida JD-100A
Shanling T100
 
Right now, I'm living with a Marantz DV9500. But prior to that I was using an mbl 1511D (originally sold for $10k). Next month I'm planning on acquiring an Ayon CD-3.
 
Let's get my definition of a giant killer out of the way first. IMO a giant killer is a component which costs less than but can compete or sound better than the reference level stuff. I would consider reference level equipment to be $2k+ used market prices for recent models and $1k+ for older models. Also IMO, reference level equipment should approach the sound quality of a good turn table or even live music. I have encountered a few giant killers, but all of them were more than a grand on the used market. Reference level equipment can differ in sound. But IMO they all have a certain refinement to the sound which lesser equipment just can't touch.
 
When I heard the stock Oppo, I was highly disappointed given all the rave reviews. IMO it is mechanical sounding, somewhat analytical, dry, lacks in spacial cues, and not very engaging. However, I did get the chance to listen to a highly modded Oppo and again IMO that can certainly be considered a giant killer.   
 

Not so keen on the "should sound like vinyl" part, but I do thank you very much for your time and effort.
 
I will definitely check some reviews and look on audiogon and see what I can get my mits on

 

[Stoin]

I've found a Primare dealer in London and the good news is that they also sell Quad and Arcam. Should be a good weekend.
 
Computerparts: I agree with your definition of a giant killer (except for the sound like vinyl part). However it is an overused term and I think most people use it to describe £300-700 gear that sounds much better than it's peers and approaches the sound of better gear in their own systems. These systems tend to be comprised of components of a similar price and where some of the sound improvements offered by the better gear are going unnoticed. It is also said of components that offer a lot of detail at the expense of other qualities. Personally I find overly detailed equipment (in comparison to the other qualities it posses) to sound unnatural. My Cambridge CDP playing through the Linn DS-I sounds great (except for the transport noise) but through it's own DAC it can sound artificial at times.

 

[computerparts]

I agree "vinyl" is an overly used term. That is why I said a good turn table and not vinyl. Let us know what you find.

 

[Stoin]

Well the first thing I can say is that the Roksan is out of the running. I could not live with something that hideous no matter how good it sounded. Seeing one in the flesh is a wholly unpleasant experience. In photos I couldn't see why everyone said it was ugly, but now I have seen how vile it really looks. One of these would be quite impractical to live with - removing the paper bag every time I wanted to play a disc would be very tiresome.
 
I don't normally approve of dismissing hi-fi gear or of putting it on a pedestal because of the way it looks but in this case I'll make an exception. It truly is the most disgusting piece of electronics packaging ever. Even Jecklin Floats look gorgeous in comparison.
 
I'm also thinking of holding on another month or so to the start of November before buying. It looks like I'll be working too hard to spend much on anything for the next 6 weeks so I can have a good month of savings and maybe include some pricier players on the list - if they are enough of a step up from the cheaper models. It'll also let me do a bit more research and maybe be long enough for the new Quad's to be released.

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

 
 
If you cannot find an actual  Oppo try to listen to an AYRE DX-5 or a LEXICON DB-30. They are both Oppo 83s in a different box.
 
To be fair Charles Ayre himself has come clean on the reasons behind this. The Oppo contains the best quality parts currently available but the boutique audiophile companies cannot afford the licensing so it's cheaper for them to buy complete Oppos and stuff them into boxes which match the style of the rest of their expensive ranges.
 
The Lexicon is apparently completely  unchanged apart from several thousand dollars added to the price but Ayre have at least made some minor amendments to the technology in which they still have some expertise. i.e. replacing the original wiring with bullion and some teaks to the power supply.

Charlie Hanson if I recall the thread on audio asylum was referring to Lexicon ripping off the Oppo. The Ayre is a proprietary design and Charlie paid all fees to the companies for liscensing thus the price is higher. Hanson designed a top notch player and because he invested in the technology is the reason it is priced higher. Your post was incorrect and his name you even has wrong.

 

[Frank I]

Another option would be the Marantz 8004 which is priced at 999.00 and does sacd. Marantz builds nice players with both good redbook and sacd. May want to listen to both the Oppo and the Marantz. It would be interesting comparison.

 

[Stoin]

I have to admit to not having heard any high-end Marantz gear and only having heard one of their cheap CDPs from about ten years ago through a friends system. Maybe I should try and rectify this before I make my purchase. Do you know how close the Marantz CDPs are to the Denons? I remember reading (on Tustedreviews.com) that their blu-ray players were very similar because they share the same owner (D&M Holdings).

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Another option would be the Marantz 8004 which is priced at 999.00 and does sacd. Marantz builds nice players with both good redbook and sacd. May want to listen to both the Oppo and the Marantz. It would be interesting comparison.

FWIW I remember reading on stereophile that Marantz players typically have high jitter compared to most... whether or not you can actually hear it, well that is another story.

 

[Stoin]

Quote:

I agree "vinyl" is an overly used term. That is why I said a good turn table and not vinyl. Let us know what you find.

I misread this the first time. I was referring to "Giant Killer" being overused. It seems to be used for newly released products and then dies down when another product becomes the FOTM.
 
Vinyl is another overused term though.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

FWIW I remember reading on stereophile that Marantz players typically have high jitter compared to most... whether or not you can actually hear it, well that is another story.

The last Marantz was the 8001 reviewed and in the measurements John Atkinson said the measurements were beyond reproach. true state of the art. It was rated class A and I have not heard any jitter in my DV6001 and I would assume the 8003 and 8004 are probably as good or better than the 8001 it replaced.

 

[computerparts]

One thing you have to take into account with Marantz. None of their digital components utilize a ground in the mains. Noise is a possible concern with this depending on your power.