[Bonthouse]

You said it, bro!

 

[demoNMaCHiN3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yep. Just look at Demigod's launch. Of the 120k logins on launch day, only 18k were legitimate buyers. Made a fine mess of their servers for the first few days which resulted in some terrible reviews. No wonder PC gaming is dying.

offtopic but illegal copies didn't cause the server problems:
"GameStop started selling the game four days before the official release date, so the Stardock guys had to hobble together a network made seemingly made out of cans and string, causing most players to see delays when joining games or having the game give up after a few minutes."
Demigod Review - AtomicGamer - Free video game downloads, patches, videos, demos, reviews, previews, and screenshots.

anyway, the game feels like a beta, especially to people who play DotA. don't attribute poor sales due to piracy when it's obvious it is due to the fact the game is mediocre at best.

 

[eightbitpotion]

I 100% support piracy of all types. It has molded our genres and tastes throughout the years through burned CDs, mix-tapes (remember these?), and simply hitting record on your boombox and hitting up the mall...only to enjoy some music later. There have been a lot of bands that honestly would not have made it if it weren't for piracy (e.g. Dragonforce hah). It opens minds... it's sharing a passion for something great.

With that said, I do buy CDs- if I like what I hear. I refuse to buy a CD for a single good song simply because I don't want that record label and artist to think that they're great in anyway because they've sold a cd to me. There a a lot of CDs which I adore, and they deserve my money...some more than once (nirvana nevermind, metalica black, pearl jam ten...etc).

I think online music sites are a good route, but they really do love DRMs, and honestly I think that these companies should just be happy that people are buying the media- I transfer my music to a lot of things... and I do use flac, so it really limits me.

In the end I just think that I'm a musician, and if I found out that someone downloaded my music without me promoting it to them- I'd feel unbelievably honored... I think a lot of artists just lose this when they start banking, but there are some that still think the way I do, and that's why I own their CDs.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by demoNMaCHiN3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif offtopic but illegal copies didn't cause the server problems: "GameStop started selling the game four days before the official release date, so the Stardock guys had to hobble together a network made seemingly made out of cans and string, causing most players to see delays when joining games or having the game give up after a few minutes." Demigod Review - AtomicGamer - Free video game downloads, patches, videos, demos, reviews, previews, and screenshots. anyway, the game feels like a beta, especially to people who play DotA. don't attribute poor sales due to piracy when it's obvious it is due to the fact the game is mediocre at best.

Stardock's take on the issue is quite different that that reviewer's.

Should Stardock have done better? Sure. But the willful copyright infringement rate on Demigod was much higher than for their previous games that they were blindsided. Either way though, they should have done the usual thing and handed out review copies before the game went live.

 

[mbd2884]

With Demigod, the online connection issue was a factor for Gamespot. But reading or watching you realize their more pertinent issue was the lack of game content and seemingly to be an incomplete game for the price paid. They felt it may be a better game in the future, but right now it's lacking in content.

 

[chesebert]

Can we please use the term:'willful copyright infringement'

The term 'piracy' is totally misleading and inappropriate

 

[mbd2884]

The issue I have over music and piracy is the artists.

Record labels complain, and see ads showing artists suffering. But BT, one of my favorite artists said, of the 500,000 CDs of the album at that time he just released sold, he had not seen a single cent of the profits. Jokingly said to let him know how he can get some of the profits as he would gladly accept them.

I don't know about your guys, but 500,000 CDs sold and not one cent seems a bit well, crappy for the artist.

Then I see these online sites for dowloading music per song, how much of that does iTunes give to the artist? Not the label, and whoever else, the artist?

All I care about when it comes to music is the artist and the people who worked on the album, not the execs. Yeah I know they are part of the wheel for music and help bring the music, I still don't care.

That's why when there is an artist I like, I do go see them in concert as the artists actually get paid for their concerts.

For the music distribution, I think a new model is needed. If all that money for CDs and online music is just going to execs, then just setup a subscription. Pay a subscription per month for music as it is for internet, cable and phone bills. It should just be a music SERVICE and stop with with the bull about artists losing money on CD sales.

If it's about the artists then setup a system where the consumer can see the money paid goes directly to the artist or at least a portion of the profits. If the consumer who supports the artists see that copyright infringement is hurting the artist financially, then they would stop. But right now, average consumer like myself don't see how copyright infringement of music is hurting any their artists, especially when reading the artists they support through concert tickets and merchandaise admit they have not see any of the profits from CD sales. Or others just blatantly stating all they care about is people enjoying their music, which really delegates this fight to execs missing their millions in bonuses.

For now I will continue to pay for concerts as it seems to me the best way for me to support my favorite artists, not CD sales.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbd2884 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know about your guys, but 500,000 CDs sold and not one cent seems a bit well, crappy for the artist.

I have no problem with artist not making a single cent from selling CD since artists had willingly contracted to achieve that end for whatever consideration they got in return.

Unless you think artists are 12 yr old kids who need to be protected from 'the bad wolf', the freedom to contract and freedom from contract is a fundamental democratic value that we should cherish and protect.

 

[mbd2884]

And I have no problem in not supporting CD sales and finding other ways to support the artist.

 

[vhbaske]

How about headphones?

 

[chesebert]

all this debate..and its not really settle whether a downloader's downloading music from another, whose music was legally obtained and had the right to make copy for her own personal enjoyment, and the downloader's use of the downloaded music for personal enjoyment constitute willful copyright infringement.


wow..that's an unnecessary long sentence

 

[Snake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif all this debate..and its not really settle whether a downloader's downloading music from another, whose music was legally obtained and had the right to make copy for her own personal enjoyment, and the downloader's use of the downloaded music for personal enjoyment constitute willful copyright infringement.

The first party has every right to make a copy for their own enjoyment as per Fair Use. But once you make it available for downloading by others the first party violates Fair Use by making the copy available and the second party violates copyright by not having a contract under Fair Use at all, as they did not purchase an original to qualify for Fair Use in the first place.

 

[Dzjudz]

Of course, laws aren't the same everywhere. In the Netherlands, it's perfectly legal to download (not upload) music and movies. Games and applications, on the other hand, not.

Still, I just ordered 5 CDs yesterday. So while I do download a lot of music (it's my main source of new material), if I really like an album, I'll buy it on CD as well. Same with movies/DVDs.

 

[fraseyboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dzjudz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Of course, laws aren't the same everywhere. In the Netherlands, it's perfectly legal to download (not upload) music and movies. Games and applications, on the other hand, not. Still, I just ordered 5 CDs yesterday. So while I do download a lot of music (it's my main source of new material), if I really like an album, I'll buy it on CD as well. Same with movies/DVDs.

Same.

I try not to download albums from up-and-coming indie artists and normally limit myself to one pirated album per band. If I like that album I'll go out and buy a different one.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snake /img/forum/go_quote.gif The first party has every right to make a copy for their own enjoyment as per Fair Use. But once you make it available for downloading by others the first party violates Fair Use by making the copy available and the second party violates copyright by not having a contract under Fair Use at all, as they did not purchase an original to qualify for Fair Use in the first place.

sorry..you are wrong.

no on point appellate opinion to date had addressed the liability of the downloader;

If you are thinking about the Napster line of cases, you failed to realize that there is also the Grokster line of cases. The divergence in outcomes between Napster and Grokster tests the limits of the fair use and contributory infringement doctrines and as such the issue of whether there is contributory infringement is largely unsettled.