LAiV Harmony uDDC Re-clocker/DDC

[TedB]

So I have been listening to the two cases you wanted me to evaluate. So first case is straight from DMP-A6 streamer over USB into Holo Audio Cyan2 DAC. Second case is streamer over USB into Laiv uDDC then I2S into same DAC. First impressions are that they are quite similar, but as I listened further and switched back and forth, I definately preferred the second case with the uDDC in the path. Just a bit better soundstage clarity and contrast, a bit more depth maybe. But not an overwhelming or large difference, subtle enough really. Perhaps one thing to note is that the hdmi cable used for the I2S case is not present in the first case, this cable is an AudioQuest Cinnamon 48G, maybe it is having an effect on matters. A different hdmi cable is arriving today and I will listen some more.

Cheers for undertaking the time and effort to perform this exercise, as it is the only real way to isolate the difference between the clock implementation in the Cyan 2 as compared to the μDDC, which I have not seen done by anyone else to this point. We know both objectively and subjectively that the Cyan 2 delivers solid USB performance, so the nominal difference you described seems consistent with realistic expectations. Being the Cyan 2 seems relatively insensitive to USB cables as reported by those with ample swapping experience (e.g. Derricchan), I would expect the cables themselves to be a minor variable at best, but you'll soon be able to make your own evaluation.

Given your impressions, I would say the μDDC brings input switching capability to the Cyan 2 with the added benefit of a subtle improvement, ostensibly as a result of its clock performance. This comes at a cost, but it is not as high as some other options, and at least some of those are reported not to be beneficial to audio performance.

I see the μDDC requires a 5V input, which I guess is provided by an included wall wart? If so, I would suggest discarding that in favor of an inexpensive, well-regulated linear power supply. One based upon the Studer 900 circuit fared well in a recent test posted to YouTube, and this is the same type I use with a WiiM Mini streamer.

 

[Jake2]

@JjB067 Thanks for sharing your experience, interesting how you’re using the MiniDsp SHD, I have a Flex Digital (without the optional Dirac) I got some years back for a digital crossover for subs and room equalisation via REW and maybe DIRAC. But it has been out of use for a few years as I found its s/pdif digital outputs into the R26 didn’t compete with HQP upsampled PCM or DSD direct to the R26’s NAA renderer, even minus the very clear benefits of the digital crossover and high pass for my stand mount speakers*. An ifi s/pdif iPurifier helped a bit IIRC, but R26 NAA was still another class. Haven’t thought to try it with the Harmony DAC and/or LHY UIP upstream. Must give it another whirl.

So a few more related questions:
- how does the UIP ahead of the SHD improve the sound?
- ditto re uDDC after the SHD, though I guess you addressed this above?
- I’d be interested if you were to repeat your A6 via USB vs uDDC via I2S test with the UIP inserted respectively downstream and upstream of those devices, what impact that has on relative performance?

Cheers


*PS - the low passed bass frequencies were mapped to the Flex’s second s/pdif output which went to a spare Topping DAC then onto my KEF KC62 subs. So more variables in play with the real possibility of timing drift between the two DACs but hopefully less audible in bass frequencies (I'd allowed for timing delays due to distance and KC62 processing in the Flex settings).

Thing was even comparing low bass only the R26’s spare RCA line level output (using only the sub’s internal low pass crossover, no high pass for the fronts) was so much more punchy and weighty than via the Topping. Yes acknowledging a potential mid-base hump but I endeavoured to level match and match the sub’s LP crossover to my Sopra’s natural roll off. Goodness this takes me back to hours spent on REW measurements…

 

[JjB067]

Cheers for undertaking the time and effort to perform this exercise, as it is the only real way to isolate the difference between the clock implementation in the Cyan 2 as compared to the μDDC, which I have not seen done by anyone else to this point. We know both objectively and subjectively that the Cyan 2 delivers solid USB performance, so the nominal difference you described seems consistent with realistic expectations. Being the Cyan 2 seems relatively insensitive to USB cables as reported by those with ample swapping experience (e.g. Derricchan), I would expect the cables themselves to be a minor variable at best, but you'll soon be able to make your own evaluation.

Given your impressions, I would say the μDDC brings input switching capability to the Cyan 2 with the added benefit of a subtle improvement, ostensibly as a result of its clock performance. This comes at a cost, but it is not as high as some other options, and at least some of those are reported not to be beneficial to audio performance.

I see the μDDC requires a 5V input, which I guess is provided by an included wall wart? If so, I would suggest discarding that in favor of an inexpensive, well-regulated linear power supply. One based upon the Studer 900 circuit fared well in a recent test posted to YouTube, and this is the same type I use with a WiiM Mini streamer.

As I said in an earlier post, I am not using the supplied SMPS, it is replaced with an iFi iPower2 SMPS which I happened to have. OK not a linear power supply but an improvement. The point about cables referred to the I2S hdmi cable, not the USB cable by the way.

 

[theveterans]

As I said in an earlier post, I am not using the supplied SMPS, it is replaced with an iFi iPower2 SMPS which I happened to have. OK not a linear power supply but an improvement. The point about cables referred to the I2S hdmi cable, not the USB cable by the way.

IMHO, SMPS is better for the the networking decrapification implementation like audiophile switches and FMCs but definitely LPS when the signal comes into a DDC or a network transport

 

[JjB067]

Answering Jake2, the LHY UIP definately improves the USB Audio Out from my streamer, I used to have a Denafrips Iris in that position but prefer the UIP. I have always been a bit concerned about the digital outputs of the miniDSP SHD Studio, so I always put a DDC on those, Denafrips Hermes in this case. As I stated in my first post on the uDDC, I think the I2s output on the Laiv uDDC is better than that of the Hermes.

@JjB067 Thanks for sharing your experience, interesting how you’re using the MiniDsp SHD, I have a Flex Digital (without the optional Dirac) I got some years back for a digital crossover for subs and room equalisation via REW and maybe DIRAC. But it has been out of use for a few years as I found its s/pdif digital outputs into the R26 didn’t compete with HQP upsampled PCM or DSD direct to the R26’s NAA renderer, even minus the very clear benefits of the digital crossover and high pass for my stand mount speakers*. An ifi s/pdif iPurifier helped a bit IIRC, but R26 NAA was still another class. Haven’t thought to try it with the Harmony DAC and/or LHY UIP upstream. Must give it another whirl.

So a few more related questions:
- how does the UIP ahead of the SHD improve the sound?
- ditto re uDDC after the SHD, though I guess you addressed this above?
- I’d be interested if you were to repeat your A6 via USB vs uDDC via I2S test with the UIP inserted respectively downstream and upstream of those devices, what impact that has on relative performance?

Cheers


*PS - the low passed bass frequencies were mapped to the Flex’s second s/pdif output which went to a spare Topping DAC then onto my KEF KC62 subs. So more variables in play with the real possibility of timing drift between the two DACs but hopefully less audible in bass frequencies (I'd allowed for timing delays due to distance and KC62 processing in the Flex settings).

Thing was even comparing low bass only the R26’s spare RCA line level output (using only the sub’s internal low pass crossover, no high pass for the fronts) was so much more punchy and weighty than via the Topping. Yes acknowledging a potential mid-base hump but I endeavoured to level match and match the sub’s LP crossover to my Sopra’s natural roll off. Goodness this takes me back to hours spent on REW measurements…

 

[venomas200]

Today we will be tested

 

[Sound Dragon]

Every time I see the black LAIV units, I regret going with Silver. Looks great and I definitely have come to love mine bud! Knew it was good immediately, but I am much more impressed with it after having it a few weeks.

 

[Melton]

Every time I see the black LAIV units, I regret going with Silver. Looks great and I definitely have come to love mine bud! Knew it was good immediately, but I am much more impressed with it after having it a few weeks.

I love my silver Harmony. Matches all my other silver components. Wouldn't want black.

 

[L2470]

Silver and gold looks great!

 

[rafabro]

Every time I see the black LAIV units, I regret going with Silver. Looks great and I definitely have come to love mine bud! Knew it was good immediately, but I am much more impressed with it after having it a few weeks.

At first I was planing to get silver but remote control looks terrible in silver (for me at least) so I went black and actually I love it

 

[Sound Dragon]

At first I was planing to get silver but remote control looks terrible in silver (for me at least) so I went black and actually I love it

There is honestly nothing wrong with the silver and it made sense when my gear was mostly silver faced. But in short order, I switched amps and cd transport as well as my Eversolo A6 back into the mix. Now the system is 90% black faced…..go figure. It’s a minor thing in the grand scheme of things.

 

[L2470]

Today we will be tested

What is your impression of the purchase?

 

[venomas200]

Stay with me. Very good device. Soundstage are goes deep not only wide. Excellent separation, moore details. And basically SQ are better

 

[Sound Dragon]

I continue to be super pleased with the uDDC. After a few weeks now, I feel that the overall quality of the sound through it is higher than the Harmony DAC alone. Maybe it’s all in my head or maybe….the uDDC really adds that last bit of sonic seasoning that makes it the perfect flavor of musicality for my tastes. I did not buy it with added performance abilities in mind but to act as a switch for my digital devices allowing me to keep the DAC in one input mode.

I almost skipped it as I was told that the track information would no longer be displayed on the Dacs screen, a feature that I enjoyed from a purely aesthetic standpoint. However, I no longer keep the display on all the time, so that has become a moot point. Whatever it is that the DDC is doing, I like it, and can honestly recommend it to anyone who is interested in taking the LAIV DAC further up the performance chain.

 

[mb2112]

Curious to see if anyone is stacking the I2S connections with the uDDC? Using an ES A8 and currently have it connected to the Harmony via I2S. IMO, a nice performance improvement over USB (and the other inputs). At some point I read that Weng Fai really didn't think that the adding the uDDC to an existing I2S setup was worth it.

I like the idea of having a digital switch, so that might tempt me into trying it.

Appreciate the feedback.