LAiV Harmony uDDC Re-clocker/DDC

[FredA]

Power supply for oscillator is even more important than the clock. You may have pretty good results with cheap oscillators but you wont get with poor power supply. No matter the oscillator.

Agreed but far from sure that the measurements are reliable.

 

[wagninger]

No, I've found so far that typically phase noise is increased when using the vast majority of dacs with external DDCs instead of forgoing the use of a PLL.

The May's PLL is uniquely good at handling low frequency phase noise though. It has a 3rd-order corner frequency at 0.05hz which is incredibly low. This means it does not see anywhere near as much added phase noise as a lot of other DACs when using a DDC. Though for phase noise it's still typically better to avoid the need for a PLL at all and just use the DACs own clocking.

I always assumed this because, coming from the studio world, a clock has always been used to synchronize multiple DACs and other equipment so you're not spending half a day editing drift after recording, but in a home stereo setup? One DAC, multiple sources that have nothing to do with each other and don't ever have to play in sync?

 

[FredA]

I always assumed this because, coming from the studio world, a clock has always been used to synchronize multiple DACs and other equipment so you're not spending half a day editing drift after recording, but in a home stereo setup? One DAC, multiple sources that have nothing to do with each other and don't ever have to play in sync?

Give it a try and see.

 

[wagninger]

Give it a try and see.

another thing is, the most expensive studio clock is around 5000$, typically they are around 2000. This is not even the starting price for hifi clocks...

 

[FredA]

another thing is, the most expensive studio clock is around 5000$, typically they are around 2000. This is not even the starting price for hifi clocks...

Cheaper clock (even from 200$) can make a difference, depending on the psu (if separate) and audio setup.

 

[sajunky]

I always assumed this because, coming from the studio world, a clock has always been used to synchronize multiple DACs and other equipment so you're not spending half a day editing drift after recording, but in a home stereo setup? One DAC, multiple sources that have nothing to do with each other and don't ever have to play in sync?

When you have source of a synchronous datastream and a receiver, synchronise both with the same clock frequency. It needs a simple synchronisation method in the receiver, much easier case than synchronising to the unknown frequency.

 

[gtman55]

Cheaper clock (even from 200$) can make a difference, depending on the psu (if separate) and audio setup.

Mind giving us some guidance? I'm looking for a cheap clock

 

[theveterans]

Mind giving us some guidance? I'm looking for a cheap clock

Pi2AES

 

[FredA]

Mind giving us some guidance? I'm looking for a cheap clock

Check this thread out.

Thread 'Master Clock Talk'

Mar 17, 2007

It is my belief that upgrading your master clock can be the most rewarding upgrade you can make on your CD player.

Kwak-Clock is the best DIY option, outperforms many of the other commercially offered solutions.

Audiocom Superclock 3 - $330

Effective Audio Mod Clock Module II - $115-$180

LC Audio LClock XO3 - $170

NewClassD (Dexa) Reference Audio Clock - $230

TentLabs XO-2 - $120

Trichord Research Clock 2 and Clock 4 - $145-$290

Please add to the list or modify the list

• colonelkernel8
• Replies: 3,818
• Forum: Dedicated Source Components

• 

Cheap options used to be units using the mv89a oscillator but they are not so cheap anymore (still under 1k). Some have recommended the Aune xc1. The LHY OCK1 and LHY OCK2 are rather cheap as well. All below 1k. Some under 400.

 

[gtman55]

Check this thread out.

Thread 'Master Clock Talk'

Mar 17, 2007

It is my belief that upgrading your master clock can be the most rewarding upgrade you can make on your CD player.

Kwak-Clock is the best DIY option, outperforms many of the other commercially offered solutions.

Audiocom Superclock 3 - $330

Effective Audio Mod Clock Module II - $115-$180

LC Audio LClock XO3 - $170

NewClassD (Dexa) Reference Audio Clock - $230

TentLabs XO-2 - $120

Trichord Research Clock 2 and Clock 4 - $145-$290

Please add to the list or modify the list

• colonelkernel8
• Replies: 3,818
• Forum: Dedicated Source Components

• 

Cheap options used to be units using the mv89a oscillator but they are not so cheap anymore (still under 1k). Some have recommended the Aune xc1. The LHY OCK1 and LHY OCK2 are rather cheap as well. All below 1k. Some under 400.

Thanks will do

 

[GoldenSound]

I always assumed this because, coming from the studio world, a clock has always been used to synchronize multiple DACs and other equipment so you're not spending half a day editing drift after recording, but in a home stereo setup? One DAC, multiple sources that have nothing to do with each other and don't ever have to play in sync?

Yeah this is what they were originally intended for.
In certain studio environments you need to have a lot of devices synced long term. Or in broadcast environments for example, can't have your cameras and audio devices going out of sync over the course of a few hrs or days, so a single reference everything syncs to prevents that. This is what they were meant for, not improving jitter.

But in audio, if you want to absolutely minimise jitter, you'd want to avoid using a fractional PLL wherever possible and just use audio rate clocks. Even if you do really really want to use an external clock, the ideal way is to use one that can either control the DAC directly or at least be used with an integer PLL. Some companies do this, dCS and a few others use external word clocks for example, with one connection for each base rate, rather than 10Mhz clocks. And their products do genuinely see improved jitter when you use the external clocks.

 

[sajunky]

But in audio, if you want to absolutely minimise jitter, you'd want to avoid using a fractional PLL wherever possible and just use audio rate clocks. Even if you do really really want to use an external clock, the ideal way is to use one that can either control the DAC directly or at least be used with an integer PLL.

This is not true. Clocking DDC externally brings better results that clocking DAC directly.

Another example is clocking CD player with the same clock source as a DDC (or DAC if there is no DDC). It makes S/PDIF or AES/EBU connection virtually jitter-free. This is a pro use of the external clock in the home equipment.

And you are wrong that fractional PLL is bad, it has to be avoided. Something you overheard or imagined yourself, like with your other claim that a wider skirt around oscilator frequency represents higher amount of low frequency jitter. A theory makes it clear that FFT plot doesn't carry such information for the random noise that create a skirt.

A truth is that a noise frequency of the fractional PLL depends on a divider ratio, it can be controlled to avoid low frequency jitter which is difficult to remove. I know, you will keep posting these things, but high frequency jitter is easily reduced on the secondary PLL to a level below -160dB. Far below level of any importancy. And listening tests confirm that if the external clock has a low noise around 10Hz area, it is preserved.

 

[GoldenSound]

This is not true. Clocking DDC externally brings better results that clocking DAC directly.

please see the measurements I posted prior. Jitter is higher when using an external DDC vs direct USB

If you subjectively prefer using the DDC that's fine. But in terms of actual jitter performance, it's demonstrably worse. Not by much, but still

 

[stuart1927]

I just received my Laiv DDC and it's paired with the Harmony dac. I'm frankly shocked about the difference in sound quality across the board. I need a bit more time to process but whatever is in that little box is doing something very impressive. Key things right off the bat are greatly increased clarity, detail and soundstage. Bass also seems to be tighter overall with more impact. It sounds like I just bought a much more high end dac! My front end is a wryed4 sound music server/streamer. (their highest tier version so no slouch)

 

[Fluty]

A question for the Tech-heads here: My primary source is a CD Transport (TEAC VRDS 701T) which aso has provision for an external clock. So it would make sense to connect both to my Leo Bodnar GPS clock which has two outputs. With all audio its important that L & R channel leads are of equal length - would this also apply to the connecting cables from an ext clock to two seperate components?