L0rdGwyn's DIY Audio
Jun 26, 2021 at 6:17 AM Post #2,746 of 6,808
Doing some early morning listening with Western Electric 421A and fresh ears. Sounds good! Will listen with a better source today to see how it really sounds, maybe some vinyl.

On the DAC front, I've committed to a TDA1541A design, will be running it in simultaneous mode, USB input digital front-end. Just the tip of the iceberg though, this is going to be a long-term project. I plan to use passive I/V, most likely a SUT, ratio to be determined, with a tube output stage to reach line level.

Going to have to up my EE skills for this one, so I got myself a new beach read.

PXL_20210626_101216617-2.jpg
 
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Jun 26, 2021 at 8:55 AM Post #2,747 of 6,808
Doing some early morning listening with Western Electric 421A and fresh ears. Sounds good! Will listen with a better source today to see how it really sounds, maybe some vinyl.

It'll never sound good with cheap, crappy tubes. You should probably send the WE's to me and save your ears. :smile:
 
Jun 26, 2021 at 9:30 AM Post #2,748 of 6,808
It'll never sound good with cheap, crappy tubes. You should probably send the WE's to me and save your ears. :smile:

You're right, time to power up! :sunglasses: the 421As will be in the mail, or I can forward direct to the junk yard if that would be easier.

PXL_20210626_131943329-2.jpg
 
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Jun 26, 2021 at 11:27 AM Post #2,749 of 6,808
You're right, time to power up! :sunglasses: the 421As will be in the mail, or I can forward direct to the junk yard if that would be easier.

PXL_20210626_131943329-2.jpg

PXL_20210626_132202730-2.jpg
Junkyard? NOOOO! Even a used up, dying, or totally dead WE 421A should get a place on the fireplace mantle as a matter of respect. :smile:

Those TungSols with the spring mica supports and silver top/bottom edges on the plates are very nice. I scored a couple for way cheap a while back and was quite pleased with how good they sound.
 
Jul 1, 2021 at 3:46 PM Post #2,750 of 6,808
Got some nifty PCBs for my DAC today. This project is moving at at a snail's pace since I am working on three or four things at once, but hey, progress!

PXL_20210701_183955068-3.jpg

So what the hell do these do? This necessitates some technical explanation on digital front-end design for these old R2R DAC chips...can skip to TL;DR if it's too much mumbo jumbo.

Popular chips for these NOS R2R designs (e.g., TDA1541A, AD1865, PCM63, PCM56, etc.) are typically designed to operate with one or both of two different digital data stream protocols, PCM or I2S. For PCM input chips, the right and left channel data streams are separated prior to the DAC input. Later, I2S protocol was implemented, which places both left and right channels on the same serial data steam at double the clock frequency (two channels of data, twice the frequency). The data for two channels is then divided (de-multiplexed) in the DAC integrated circuitry.

The problem comes up when you want to use a PCM input DAC (say PCM56, like my SW1X DAC II) with a digital front end that outputs I2S - the data streams for the two channels MUST be split before they hit the DAC input. A common approach when using PCM chips with an I2S digital front end (e.g., CS8414 SPDIF receiver, like in my DAC II), is to "split" the channels using a hex-inverter, then re-align them using a shift register, otherwise there will be a very small inter-channel timing delay (although some designs just live with the delay rather than re-aligning the channels, given the delay is in the micro-second timeframe and is of questionable audibility). Again, this is the approach in the DAC II.

Moving from the TDA1540 to the TDA1541A, Philips introduced the ability to use either PCM or I2S protocol. To get the absolute best sound out of the TDA1541A, all reading, learning, and discussion has pointed toward operating it with PCM inputs, aka simultaneous mode. This cuts the clock frequency in half, reduces jitter artifacts, and leads to the best subjective listening experience.

The boards above were designed for a USB digital front end solution that can be configured to output PCM, an all-in-one solution to interface with PCM input chips, and it came highly recommended.

TL;DR - basically these boards will let me design a USB input DAC and operate the TDA1541A in simultaneous mode for the best sound from the chip.

Next thing for this project is to start to assess the specific needs for a low-noise voltage-regulated power supply, that is going to take some time to design.

Okay, that's enough of that...

On the OTL amplifier front, the sound is excellent and I am very happy with where it is from a sonic standpoint. However, I am designing some ancillary circuitry before moving onto finalizing the chassis: new voltage-regulator PCBs, time-delay-switched relay boards, fine-tuning the more functional aspects of the circuit. But the good news is the amp sounds very good, just need to finalize exactly what is going inside the box before we build one :) more to come.
 
Jul 1, 2021 at 3:49 PM Post #2,751 of 6,808
Got some nifty PCBs for my DAC today. This project is moving at at a snail's pace since I am working on three or four things at once, but hey, progress!

PXL_20210701_183955068-3.jpg

So what the hell do these do? This necessitates some technical explanation on digital front-end design for these old R2R DAC chips...can skip to TL;DR if it's too much mumbo jumbo.

Popular chips for these NOS R2R designs (e.g., TDA1541A, AD1865, PCM63, PCM56, etc.) are typically designed to operate with one or both of two different digital data stream protocols, PCM or I2S. For PCM input chips, the right and left channel data streams are separated prior to the DAC input. Later, I2S protocol was implemented, which places both left and right channels on the same serial data steam at double the clock frequency (two channels of data, twice the frequency). The data for two channels is then divided (de-multiplexed) in the DAC integrated circuitry.

The problem comes up when you want to use a PCM input DAC (say PCM56, like my SW1X DAC II) with a digital front end that outputs I2S - the data streams for the two channels MUST be split before they hit the DAC input. A common approach when using PCM chips with an I2S digital front end (e.g., CS8414 SPDIF receiver, like in my DAC II), is to "split" the channels using a hex-inverter, then re-align them using a shift register, otherwise there will be a very small inter-channel timing delay (although some designs just live with the delay rather than re-aligning the channels, given the delay is in the micro-second timeframe and is of questionable audibility). Again, this is the approach in the DAC II.

Moving from the TDA1540 to the TDA1541A, Philips introduced the ability to use either PCM or I2S protocol. To get the absolute best sound out of the TDA1541A, all reading, learning, and discussion has pointed toward operating it with PCM inputs, aka simultaneous mode. This cuts the clock frequency in half, reduces jitter artifacts, and leads to the best subjective listening experience.

The boards above were designed for a USB digital front end solution that can be configured to output PCM, an all-in-one solution to interface with PCM input chips, and it came highly recommended.

TL;DR - basically these boards will let me design a USB input DAC and operate the TDA1541A in simultaneous mode for the best sound from the chip.

Next thing for this project is to start to assess the specific needs for a low-noise voltage-regulated power supply, that is going to take some time to design.

Okay, that's enough of that...

On the OTL amplifier front, the sound is excellent and I am very happy with where it is from a sonic standpoint. However, I am designing some ancillary circuitry before moving onto finalizing the chassis: new voltage-regulator PCBs, time-delay-switched relay boards, fine-tuning the more functional aspects of the circuit. But the good news is the amp sounds very good, just need to finalize exactly what is going inside the box before we build one :) more to come.
Sounds fab
Hope it is as fun as it sounds
 
Jul 1, 2021 at 3:56 PM Post #2,752 of 6,808
Got some nifty PCBs for my DAC today. This project is moving at at a snail's pace since I am working on three or four things at once, but hey, progress!
Keenan, knowing this DAC is going to be cost-no-object for you:
I am curious whether the estimated BOM cost end up being more, less or same as buying the SW1X DAC II...
 
Jul 1, 2021 at 4:10 PM Post #2,753 of 6,808
Keenan, knowing this DAC is going to be cost-no-object for you:
I am curious whether the estimated BOM cost end up being more, less or same as buying the SW1X DAC II...

Good question! Assuming it doesn't become a money pit from endless experimentation, I would actually expect it to cost less. The single most costly component, as things stand right now, will be the I/V stage transformers, next the chassis, then the TDA1541A chip itself (around $150). A majority of the circuitry will be on a PCB, the real cost of that is the design time, but individual components won't be very expensive. It adds up though depending on how quickly we get it "right". It's very easy to create an oscillator when working with solid-state components, which is always a headache to troubleshoot...

But then all subsequent work on any future DAC would be much, much easier :) the design phase faster, the power supply skeleton in place, PCB layout issues already troubleshot. That is one of the nice things about DIY, you get faster and more efficient as you go! But then the designs get more complex, and you become a tortoise again :turtle:
 
Jul 10, 2021 at 8:02 AM Post #2,754 of 6,808
I got a bunch of new 801A tubes :)

RCA USN 801A - this is sort of the "classic" 801A, running these in my amp for now.

PXL_20210710_105847751-2.jpg

National Electronics 801A - NE was rebrander, I'm not certain of the actual manufacturer on these yet, need to compare to others in my collection (Hytron perhaps).

PXL_20210710_110014671-2.jpg

Taylor graphite plate VT-62 - graphite plate version are pretty hard to come by for a good price, very pleased to pick these up.

PXL_20210710_110239876-2.jpg

National Electronics 801A - another pair of graphite plates, these were made by Taylor as well.

PXL_20210710_110516895-2.jpg

Most of my 801A were bought in Japan, lots of these tubes over there, I'm sure there is a historical reason for that. As such I got these all for very good prices :ksc75smile:

I don't have much interesting to report on my projects - of course work is ongoing, new projects are developing, I've worked out the remaining kinks on my OTL, just need to finish up some PCB design and it will be good to go in a chassis. Excited to have some Head-Fiers give it a listen when the first one is done.
 
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Jul 10, 2021 at 8:07 AM Post #2,755 of 6,808
I got a bunch of new 801A tubes :)

RCA USN 801-A - this is sort of the "classic" 801-A, running these in my amp for now.

PXL_20210710_105847751-2.jpg

National Electronics 801A - NE was rebrander, I'm not certain of the actual manufacturer on these yet, need to compare to others in my collection (Hytron perhaps).

PXL_20210710_110014671-2.jpg

Taylor graphite plate VT-62 - graphite plate version are pretty hard to come by for a good price, very pleased to pick these up.

PXL_20210710_110239876-2.jpg

National Electronics 801A - another pair of graphite plates, these were made by Taylor as well.

PXL_20210710_110516895-2.jpg

Most of my 801A were bought in Japan, lots of these tubes over there, I'm sure there is a historical reason for that. As such I got these all for very good prices :ksc75smile:

Sweet! I've never heard an 801A. Deprived childhood and all. :smile:

I don't have much interesting to report on my projects - of course work is ongoing, new projects are developing, I've worked out the remaining kinks on my OTL, just need to finish up some PCB design and it will be good to go in a chassis. Excited to have some Head-Fiers give it a listen when the first one is done.

Do you want me to send my address now, or wait until you're done? LOL!!
 
Jul 10, 2021 at 8:25 AM Post #2,756 of 6,808
Nice tubes!
I dig those graphite plates...interesting to hear about any differences in sound vs metal plate
 
Jul 10, 2021 at 8:32 AM Post #2,757 of 6,808
Sweet! I've never heard an 801A. Deprived childhood and all. :smile:

Probably because this tube is such a PITA to use lol but you are rewarded for the effort.

Do you want me to send my address now, or wait until you're done? LOL!!

Lol I mean if people were willing to pay the shipping costs, which would be significant, I would consider doing a tour of some sort. But big, heavy, expensive things cost a lot to ship. Another thing I had considered was sending it to someone who is going to attend a meet / CanJam event so people could try it out. Not making any final decisions now! Just some ideas.

Nice tubes!
I dig those graphite plates...interesting to hear about any differences in sound vs metal plate

You know someone told me the graphite plates have lower distortion, and I think I confirmed that at some point...to me they sound a little more transparent.
 
Jul 10, 2021 at 1:27 PM Post #2,759 of 6,808
Another thing I had considered was sending it to someone who is going to attend a meet / CanJam event so people could try it out.
Did you try to contact Bevin & Zach, see if they're willing to organize another ZMFestivus? That would be THE perfect place to have multiple people with awesome ZMF headphones testing your creation!!
IF that happens - I am 100% in :L3000:
I hear October is very nice in Chicago area... Just saying...
 
Jul 10, 2021 at 2:39 PM Post #2,760 of 6,808
Did you try to contact Bevin & Zach, see if they're willing to organize another ZMFestivus? That would be THE perfect place to have multiple people with awesome ZMF headphones testing your creation!!
IF that happens - I am 100% in :L3000:
I hear October is very nice in Chicago area... Just saying...

I don't think they are doing it this year, @Zachik . But I will find a way to get ears / feedback on this OTL when it is done, rest assured!
 

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