Koss KSC75 – Sharp, Painful Treble? (Also, Major Difficulties Finding Headphones That Work For My Tastes)
Mar 4, 2012 at 11:22 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

SecondZephyr

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Okay, so this is a long story, but I really need some help on not only what I should do with these headphones, but if/when I buy a different set, what I should end up getting. So here goes…
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So this is my first post here, but I’ve been looking around Head-Fi for a few weeks now as I’ve tried to solve my portable headphone replacement problem: I need something to replace my old Sony MDR-Q23LPs, as they broke due to their asinine, sticky, spaghetti-like, over 6-foot long cord getting stuck in a car-door closing mechanism as I got in… *facepalm*. With some bass reduction, they sounded great (note: I’m about the complete opposite of a basshead, and I always reduce the bass), but due to both the connecting and the behind-the-neck cord being far too long (and the long behind-the-neck cord being easily the dorkiest-looking thing I’d ever seen when worn), I was adamant on not buying another pair.
 
Well, first, I ended up discovering the SoundMagic PL30s. Long story short: the SQ was awesome (particularly with a bit of bass and center-mid reduction), but I found out that I have absolutely minuscule ear canals, and that they weren’t going to work for me. The smallest tips stayed in, but gave me major headaches really fast (both the silicon and foam ones), and the larger tips never sealed right at all. The largest ones literally removed themselves from my ear within ten seconds of me placing them in. Yeah. (No wonder ear plugs hurt my ears as a kid… lol). That, and the isolation actually bothered me – turns out I actually prefer being able to hear my surroundings with headphones in.
 
I ended up selling them to a friend of mine who fell in love with them pretty much the minute he put them in his ears (made his day, at least!), and decided that I should try to go back to clip-ons. But I did NOT want to deal with the Sonys again… which basically left the Koss KSC75s as my only option.
 
The first thing that I noticed putting these on is that they fit my ears almost PERFECTLY. Quite possibly THE most comfortable headphones I’ve ever owned!
 
However, the first things I noticed when actually listening to them were a bit different:
First, (lol, you guessed it!) they had WAAAAAY too much bass for my taste. I promptly made a gradual 5db cut from 32hz-300hz for them using the lifesaving iPod Touch app EQu, and that solved the issue quite nicely.
Second (and more importantly), the high treble was easily the most shrill, piercing, and painful that I’d ever heard, sans stock earbuds.
 
I instantly tried EQing it out, but unlike other headphones where I’ve EQ’d out excess, painful treble like this, the 75s ended up having a really muffled sound to them, and it was obvious that tracks did NOT sound right. No matter what cuts I make around 9k and up, it always comes out muffled, and I could tell that I was missing something. Bring it up to reduce the muffled sound, and of course, you get harsh, piercing treble again. Ugh…
 
I’ve decided it’s not really the quantity of treble, it’s the quality of the treble on the KSC75s that bothers me.
 
So now, the big questions:
  • I’ve never specifically “burned-in” headphones besides just through normal use, but would it help at all with those piercing highs? And how would I go about doing this? (I’ve heard of running it through a wide range of music over several days, white noise, pink noise, etc.)
     
  • Finally if and when I decide to buy different headphones, are there any recommendations you guys can give me? Considering that I’m…
          - About the complete opposite of a basshead
          - Someone who likes very smooth, soft, and sweet highs
          - Someone who doesn’t like much isolation
          - And someone who can’t comfortably wear IEMs
…are there any headphones that you guys know of that fit that bill pretty nicely? The cheaper the better, too, but I would also just like to know if my dream headphones even EXIST…
 
ljokerl’s side-by-side comparisons for IEMs and portable headphones have been a great help toward understanding the qualities of what I might want to buy (and what I can find in my small, college student budget! lol), but I think actually discussing it with some people will help.
 
*whew* Sorry for the long read! Thanks in advance!
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EDIT: I'm also starting to think that drums and other transients hit too hard on the them for my taste, too - almost as though they're too "fast"...
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 12:59 AM Post #2 of 14
Try burning in the KSC75. Set the volume on your player so that the sound is a bit louder than you use to listen, and let the player play for many hours. I don't remember my KSC75 ever being shrill. Perhaps yours will sound much better after burn in. I think my KSC75 is over 10 years old.
 
If you love treble, and want something open without too much bass, I suggest the Sennheiser MX580 earbuds($28). It is a traditional earbud, not an IEM. It is a bit on the small side for an earbud, but not as small as the MX581. The MX581 has a warmer sound though.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/511784/review-sennheiser-mx580-mx581-fraternal-twins-equally-fabulous
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 2:11 AM Post #3 of 14
Just went and read a little bit about those earbuds, and I might have to check them out. Thanks for the suggestion! It's nice to see a big name company still making earbuds - guess everything hasn't 100% gone to IEMs just yet!
 
I think I might try leaving the KSC75s connected to my iPod on a charger for some time, running through a playlist that cycles between some bassier and treblier (if those are even words, lol) tracks to it to work the drivers a bit. Maybe the sound signature's just not for me. If it ends up being that way, at least from the looks of it, I shouldn't have too much difficulty selling these... :)
 
And your 75s have lasted 10 YEARS?!? I don't care what portable headphone it is - heck, really any headphone - if they've lasted 10 years, that's pretty awesome!
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 4:00 AM Post #4 of 14
I haven't  used my KSC75 very much. I use mostly earbuds with my mp3 players when walking around.  There was a time when I did often walk around with compact headphones like the Koss Sportapro.
 
Mar 5, 2012 at 4:06 AM Post #5 of 14
Try getting Sinegen on your computer to play through sine tones through your KSC75 to find the problem frequencies. Since you have EQu you‘d be able to make quite specific corrections to these problem frequencies. That I suspect is the “quality“ of treble you're talking about--a sharp narrow peak somewhere in the treble that you haven't pinned down such that when you make a general cut to the treble things sound too dull. BTW some of these peaks are listener dependent.
 
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Mar 5, 2012 at 10:33 PM Post #6 of 14


Quote:
I haven't  used my KSC75 very much. I use mostly earbuds with my mp3 players when walking around.  There was a time when I did often walk around with compact headphones like the Koss Sportapro.



Ah, okay. That explains things a little. But still, 10 years is pretty good no matter how you look at it - for headphones at this price level, at least.


Quote:
Try getting Sinegen on your computer to play through sine tones through your KSC75 to find the problem frequencies. Since you have EQu you‘d be able to make quite specific corrections to these problem frequencies. That I suspect is the “quality“ of treble you're talking about--a sharp narrow peak somewhere in the treble that you haven't pinned down such that when you make a general cut to the treble things sound too dull. BTW some of these peaks are listener dependent.


I did a bit of searching for a safe site to download Sinegen from, but couldn't find one - almost all of the them came up red in WOT (safe-browsing tool).
Instead, I ended up using a demo I have for Ableton Live Intro and it's quite impressive parametric EQ to search for those frequencies in a song with a really bright hi-hat. (It might not be linear phase like EQu claims to be, but I think it's great nevertheless.)
 
I ended up finding some, and I was able to make an EQ on the iPod that was probably better than before... but it still just wasn't right. My guess is that there's probably numerous little peaks (and maybe even cuts) in the treble on the KSC75s, and I'm just picking them up louder and clearer than most. And since EQu is completely touch-and-drag, making more than two really tight cuts or boosts becomes nigh-impossible...
 
Weird... I've never had this problem with a headphone before.
I thought about it a bit today, and decided that I might want to order another pair of the Sony's for their SQ. To solve the cord issues, I might do a sort of DIY cord shortening by wrapping the excess up in small little circles in less-visible places (near the plug; right behind one of the ears) and tying it with some white string or yarn to fit in with the cord. Either that, or those Sennheiser buds JK1 mentioned, but after the PL30s and the KSC75s, I think I'm ready for a break from trying new headphones... :)
 
Thank you both for some great suggestions and advice!
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 4:43 AM Post #7 of 14
They need to burn, first person i've ever heard say they have too MUCH bass
basshead.gif
Try the Sporta/Portapro/Ksc35 which are supposed to be the "bassier" versions, lol
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 9:36 AM Post #8 of 14


Quote:
I did a bit of searching for a safe site to download Sinegen from, but couldn't find one - almost all of the them came up red in WOT (safe-browsing tool).



http://www.brothersoft.com/sinegen-69507.html
This has a top rating on Avast WebRep
 
http://www.tucows.com/preview/502787
Tucows a phishing site?
 
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Mar 6, 2012 at 9:45 AM Post #10 of 14
sennheiser HD238? Sound right for you, if you EQ bass down. Be careful with the cord and jack though, pretty fragile
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 8:55 PM Post #11 of 14
Yeah, with some bass EQ, the HD238s seem like they'd work nicely. Thanks for the suggestion - I'll consider those too.
 
I might like the sound of Crystals, and they are pretty small, but I think I'm going to pass on an IEM for now.
This made me wonder - for future reference, are the Soundmagic PL30s considered small IEMs compared to the standard? Still a bit surprised as to how they felt too big in my ears...
 
lol, yeah, I've heard about the other Koss options... no. Just no. XD
 
And about those websites:
First: http://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/brothersoft.com
(Looking at the recent comments, it seems it still has issues after being taken off some blacklists.)
 
And after looking up more on Tucows, yeah, I found out it's been around for awhile, and probably isn't too bad. If I didn't have another option, I might have tried it, but Ableton's got a tone tester in it's preferences that can play frequency-specific sine waves too, so I didn't really think it was worth it for something that I (for the most part) already have. I actually did try using that tone tester too, but EQing on actual song just worked better for me because my recollection of the song made a better reference point.
 
Mar 6, 2012 at 10:21 PM Post #12 of 14
I see--does that tone tester allow you to sweep through frequencies to find the exact frequency of a peak?
 
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Mar 6, 2012 at 10:45 PM Post #13 of 14
KSC75 has treble peaks at ~10kHz (stronger one) and ~12kHz.  Boosted midrange from ~1.5kHz to ~4.8kHz.  Middle ear resonances can boost some of those frequencies and give unpleasant results, I suppose.  Shrillness would be around 3k-7kHz, I think?
 
Mar 7, 2012 at 9:36 PM Post #14 of 14
Quote:
I see--does that tone tester allow you to sweep through frequencies to find the exact frequency of a peak?

 
Yep! You can cycle through frequencies from 5hz to 20khz by tenths of a frequency. Might not be as fancy as Sinegen, but here's a screenshot of it from Ableton's audio preferences screen:


 
Quote:
KSC75 has treble peaks at ~10kHz (stronger one) and ~12kHz. Boosted midrange from ~1.5kHz to ~4.8kHz.  Middle ear resonances can boost some of those frequencies and give unpleasant results, I suppose.  Shrillness would be around 3k-7kHz, I think?

 
When I made the EQ while listening to a song in Ableton, I ended up making narrow cuts at 9.5k and 12.3k - looks like I got pretty close!
 
Hmm, guess shrillness might have been the wrong term to use, then. I know what you're talking about with the upper-mid frequncies that can be painful - often that's around 3k for me. Doesn't seem like that's the issue this time, though. (Thanks for the specific frequencies, btw.)
 

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