[Atek2019]

Anyone else try the Pentaconn Brass core tips?



Was using spring tips previously to dampen the upper treble spikes.

These tips seem to "focus" the sound except for the upper treble frequencies. The sound comes through denser with more weight, effectively making the upper treble less prominent.



If you're like me and like Annihilator like sound (read: aggressive and engaging with extended treble), the PR1 Pro are the best planar iems imo. I slightly prefer it over the Zetian Wu Heyday for its better extension and more powerful presentation of the bass to lower mids.

There is a caveat though, J-pop. They tend to be more intense and actually need to be toned down, not up (which is why I still have the IER-M9s)

I like KZ Pr1 Pro the only problem is the bass doen't go very deep.... so, how about bass, does it go deep with Pentaconn Brass core tips ?

 

[chinmie]

Have you tried the 0001 setting? That should have the least bass and thus more perceived treble.

This is also the setting on my friend's unit (only toggle 4 is on). I haven't tried the other settings honestly, because even on that one setting i was dead set on purchasing one for myself. I'll test the other settings once my unit arrive

It's not for everyone though.. I would say for people who like neutral tunings like the ER4XR or Hexa, they would definitely love this one..in fact i personally prefer this one than the Hexa (which i also was thinking of buying) because the D-fi has less "artificial" sound to it, slightly more fun to listen while still maintaining the neutral tuning, and also feels more durable than the Hexa

 

[baskingshark]

This is also the setting on my friend's unit (only toggle 4 is on). I haven't tried the other settings honestly, because even on that one setting i was dead set on purchasing one for myself. I'll test the other settings once my unit arrive

It's not for everyone though.. I would say for people who like neutral tunings like the ER4XR or Hexa, they would definitely love this one..in fact i personally prefer this one than the Hexa (which i also was thinking of buying) because the D-fi has less "artificial" sound to it, slightly more fun to listen while still maintaining the neutral tuning, and also feels more durable than the Hexa

Here's the KZ D-FI graph of the 16 potential tuning configs.

Overall there is just a 4dB difference in bass between the most extreme tunings, so essentially the 16 tuning configs are a bit scammish.

The switches give a neutral with sub-bass boost kind of tonality, which is a far cry from the old school V shaped harsh house sound.

The D-FI isn't very technical but to give credit where it is due, KZ is becoming very refined in their tuning in recent months.

 

[chinmie]

Here's the KZ D-FI graph of the 16 potential tuning configs.


Overall there is just a 4dB difference in bass between the most extreme tunings, so essentially the 16 tuning configs are a bit scammish.

The switches give a neutral with sub-bass boost kind of tonality, which is a far cry from the old school V shaped harsh house sound.

The D-FI isn't very technical but to give credit where it is due, KZ is becoming very refined in their tuning in recent months.

Yup, my friend also confirmed this with his measurements, also he said that the toggle 1,2, and 3 don't seem to stack their effect, so he said essentially if toggle 3 is on, toggle 1 and 2 are basically pointless to turn on.
So the claim of 16 combination seems to be overstated...maybe 6 (of slight change) are more likely

 

[requal]

For me this is what I need. And then it's perfect.

 

[r31ya]

Yup, my friend also confirmed this with his measurements, also he said that the toggle 1,2, and 3 don't seem to stack their effect, so he said essentially if toggle 3 is on, toggle 1 and 2 are basically pointless to turn on.
So the claim of 16 combination seems to be overstated...maybe 6 (of slight change) are more likely

Its seems to be 3 x 2 = 6 setting.
3 toggles of bass (1,2,3 db option) x 2 (fourth switch, the 4db all gain)

the marketing dept seems simply goes "four switch, so its 4 x 4, 16 options"

 

[Nimweth]

Here's another underrated IEM, a bit of a hidden gem. AS12. With my Hidizs AP80 Pro X and balanced cable it is approaching the BA10 level of enjoyment. Just a little sharper in the treble and a slightly smaller stage but very involving and immediate. Wonderful fit and Isolation, which always helps. Medium Starlines are perfect.

 

[PhonoPhi]

Here's another underrated IEM, a bit of a hidden gem. AS12. With my Hidizs AP80 Pro X and balanced cable it is approaching the BA10 level of enjoyment. Just a little sharper in the treble and a slightly smaller stage but very involving and immediate. Wonderful fit and Isolation, which always helps. Medium Starlines are perfect.

Very much true!

One reason that AS12 remained hidden/unrecognized is that its earliest copies were quite different - heavily dampened, nearly suffocated treble of very rampant treble BAs that have not been used ever before to my knowledge.
I removed the treble filters, and these older AS12 are my most treble-intense pair - reknowned "treble banshee", A10/KB10, left far behind

Now, the newer version of AS12 sound right "as is" with the treble close to new generation of KZ BAs - no any temptation to play with dampening, as originally planned. Nice.

The older version of AS12 is on the left (more red wiring); the new one is on the right.

Comparing the two above - more red wirings of the older version stands as the only discernable feature, and the plastic of a first-generation QDC-like KZ connectors was/is quite prone to cracking, while new ones are perfectly fine.

AS12 were the only one all-BA with such difference between two copies that I know (all other my pairs of AS16, AS16 pro, ASX, etc. sound perfectly identical).

New AS12 can definitely be recommended.

 

[Nimweth]

Very much true!

One reason that AS12 remained hidden/unrecognized is that its earliest copies were quite different - heavily dampened, nearly suffocated treble of very rampant treble BAs that have not been used ever before to my knowledge.
I removed the treble filters, and these older AS12 are my most treble-intense pair - reknowned "treble banshee", A10/KB10, left far behind

Now, the newer version of AS12 sound right "as is" with the treble close to new generation of KZ BAs - no any temptation to play with dampening, as originally planned. Nice.


The older version of AS12 is on the left (more red wiring); the new one is on the right.

Comparing the two above - more red wirings of the older version stands as the only discernable feature, and the plastic of a first-generation QDC-like KZ connectors was/is quite prone to cracking, while new ones are perfectly fine.

AS12 were the only one all-BA with such difference between two copies that I know (all other my pairs of AS16, AS16 pro, ASX, etc. sound perfectly identical).

New AS12 can definitely be recommended.

Thank you for that. You seem to hear the all BA IEMs very similarly to how I do and I can always rely on your experience and opinion of them. As long as there's a decent bass output, I prefer all BA types to any others. Yes, good DDs have excellent natural bass and piezo drivers have silky extended treble (when implemented well) but the precision and detail with well-tuned BAs is hard to beat and for me are the best with classical music, especially baroque and string quartets.Try this one, amazing recording and performance from 1960. There's some Tape hiss but what a wonderful interpretation!

 

[PhonoPhi]

Thank you for that. You seem to hear the all BA IEMs very similarly to how I do and I can always rely on your experience and opinion of them. As long as there's a decent bass output, I prefer all BA types to any others. Yes, good DDs have excellent natural bass and piezo drivers have silky extended treble (when implemented well) but the precision and detail with well-tuned BAs is hard to beat and for me are the best with classical music, especially baroque and string quartets.Try this one, amazing recording and performance from 1960. There's some Tape hiss but what a wonderful interpretation!

Great music thank you!
Very refined tastes and nicely resonating rendering of the folktale painting of the old Russian painter.

I have not heard of Karl Ristenpart, I have to admit (regrettably).
After listening to this great piece, I looked a bit into it and found more recent releases:

Really profound Art of the Fugue - slow and magnificient (Brandenburg concertos still feel more secular and more show pieces written for the employment relative to the spiritual core of his masterpieces (definitely my limitations) .

Getting back on topic of KZ, with a classic musician as one of the KZ founders, they surely made many of their IEMs, culminating in AS16, to fully enjoy all good clasical recordings with the tapered treble coming back alive.

 

[requal]

@Nimweth @PhonoPhi What do you think are the best iems for classical music? What characteristics should they have. I once really enjoyed listening to classical music through the KZ ZS6, it was very compelling. It's not my primary genere. However, I do not know if it would make sense to return to them today.

 

[PhonoPhi]

@Nimweth @PhonoPhi What do you think are the best iems for classical music? What characteristics should they have. I once really enjoyed listening to classical music through the KZ ZS6, it was very compelling. It's not my primary genere. However, I do not know if it would make sense to return to them today.

A very good question.
I have some pieces of answers (partly subjective) - I will add them here tonight after a family trip.

*Updated:.
First, there is a difference between electronic/digital recordings and acoustic ones with live instruments.
For the former there are no frequency limits - deep sub-bass (below 30-50 Hz) and the last octave (10 to 20 kHz) can be plentiful and well-defined. For those, a neutral signature, like that of Crin's tuning oreferences (exemplified to me by Dioko or reasonably by Hola) will do best as transducers.
By contrast, acoustic tecordings of subbass require large oscilating structure and proper mics to capture it, as well for the last octave, not so much overtones are there, while sibilance present a lot of problems for mics to record cleanly.

Now, many good classical recordings present a more extreme case of acoustic recording made for older acoustic reproduction and vinyl, as nicely pointed out by @Nimweth here.
In the Science forum, I was once given a test file of the "epitome" of the golden recordings - revelationaly, nothing above 10 kHz, and very strongly tapered above 3-4 kHz. This was done to cut vinyl noise and to concentrate on mids, where the 'core information" is.
Correspondingly, transducers that enhance treble, largely so from 1 to 4 kHz (where there is something to enhance) work well; reproduction past 10 kHz is really needed. Translates to a seemingly crazy pina gains of above 12-15 dB *but works, IMHO).

(Now, there are definitely modern audiophile classical recordings that already enhance treble and use closer mics fir more overtones - so they will work better with different IEMs, I did not encounter too many of prominent cases though).

Then multiple transducers work well to separate abd reproduce more overtones, as pointed out below.

So all-BA work well. To me KZ AS16 is the epitome of an IEM for classical music.
BA10, a newer version of AS12 and AS16 pro are also great.

AS16 pro may be the one to try, if you did not experience it. If liked and leaner and more treble enhanced - AS16 original. If more eefinement is needed - more expensive all-BA may be the way to go (where I have little experience), I do like some roughness and granularity in IEMs - works well for me for violin recordings.

 

[requal]

A very good question.
I have some pieces of answers (partly subjective) - I will add them here tonight after a family trip.

I'd love to hear

 

[Nimweth]

Great music thank you!
Very refined tastes and nicely resonating rendering of the folktale painting of the old Russian painter.

I have not heard of Karl Ristenpart, I have to admit (regrettably).
After listening to this great piece, I looked a bit into it and found more recent releases:

Really profound Art of the Fugue - slow and magnificient (Brandenburg concertos still feel more secular and more show pieces written for the employment relative to the spiritual core of his masterpieces (definitely my limitations) .

Getting back on topic of KZ, with a classic musician as one of the KZ founders, they surely made many of their IEMs, culminating in AS16, to fully enjoy all good clasical recordings with the tapered treble coming back Hi

 

[Nimweth]

Great music thank you!
Very refined tastes and nicely resonating rendering of the folktale painting of the old Russian painter.

I have not heard of Karl Ristenpart, I have to admit (regrettably).
After listening to this great piece, I looked a bit into it and found more recent releases:

Really profound Art of the Fugue - slow and magnificient (Brandenburg concertos still feel more secular and more show pieces written for the employment relative to the spiritual core of his masterpieces (definitely my limitations) .

Getting back on topic of KZ, with a classic musician as one of the KZ founders, they surely made many of their IEMs, culminating in AS16, to fully enjoy all good clasical recordings with the tapered treble coming back alive.

Thank you for that. Just another thought about BAs. Domestic Hi Fi speakers nearly always feature multiple drivers with crossovers to divide the frequencies. That ensures each driver operates within its capabilities. It is very rare to find a full range domestic speaker with a single driver. Back in the 50s horn loaded cabinets with a single Lowther unit were used but I cannot recall any others. The same thing applies in IEMs. It is also more difficult for a single driver to cover the whole of the frequency range on its own. Multiple drivers avoid this problem and multiple BAs also circumvent the problem of different timbres from various driver types, allowing a seamless and integrated reproduction of the full frequency gamut. Of course the science of acoustics for IEMs is very different from speakers in a room but I believe the principle still holds good.