Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread

[Barusu Lamperouge]

This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years. I have measured the sets that I have here: https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX

This is a fantastic tool. If you have developed this then kudos to you! Except ZSR, all of them have more or less same treble.

 

[MacAttack7]

This might be interesting to some people here who want to explore the variation or lack of in KZ's house tuning over the past couple of years. I have measured the sets that I have here: https://pw.squig.link/?share=KZ_ZSX,KZ_ZAX

I'm not up to snuff on my chart reading, but say you are comparing ASX to DQ6.
They are drastically different from 6200k to 1100k.
Does that make one better than the other, or is that just pointing out that ASX is warm and DQ6 is bright?

 

[paulwasabii]

This is a fantastic tool. If you have developed this then kudos to you! Except ZSR, all of them have more or less same treble.

Thanks, nope, I had no hand in development. Just helped along by some generous folks here @MRSallee and @RikudouGoku

I'm not up to snuff on my chart reading, but say you are comparing ASX to DQ6.
They are drastically different from 6200k to 1100k.
Does that make one better than the other, or is that just pointing out that ASX is warm and DQ6 is bright?

One thing to note about my graphs and nearly all the other graphs from hobbyists with IEC711 couplers, there is usually an 8K peak from coupler resonance so that will introduce some variation in that range. Some people care more about the pre-8K parts of the graph due to this artifact. Always a good read is Crinacles post on it: https://crinacle.com/2020/04/08/graphs-101-how-to-read-headphone-measurements/

 

[lushmelody]

That's how KZ has been maintaining their business for last decade or so. They never innovated anything. Why would they innovate when their current products are head and shoulders above competition in terms of sales? If you ran a business, would you cater to a market with a billion customers or a few hundred thousand hobbyists abroad? It's not even a question. They will always cater and innovate basis what works in China. And, in a way new Black BA and XUN are their 'innovations' of sorts which is in response to the local competition. They will innovate basis their competition and not to create something path-breaking.

KZ is not only a retailer of IEMs. They OEM and ODM for other brands as well and that's where their real margins and profits are coming from. I'm saying it will take something tectonic for KZ to deviate from their bright-V signature.

you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time

Yes but the better will be very different for westerners and Chinese. It all depends on which 'better' KZ chooses.

 

[mndless]

you might consider the "BLON lesson" though. i think its very reasonable why KZ is trying to deviate from their usual harshness. new drivers might get more technicalities in less treble extension. i personally don't condemn their new tunings, i hope it gets better and better over time

The thing I have to wonder about with KZ is that they roll out three or more new IEMs each year, but they're all tuned similarly or have very peculiar, off-putting tuning schemes. I have to wonder why they don't just release an alternate revision of one of them that more closely fits a western tuning like the Harmon 2019 curve. They likely wouldn't even need to change their driver selections, just adding in fabric tuning filters on their mid-treble and treble extension drivers and adjusting the crossover network slightly to retune the upper mids to treble gain. So it would be a relatively minor expense, all things considered, but it would open up more markets.

 

[Barusu Lamperouge]

The thing I have to wonder about with KZ is that they roll out three or more new IEMs each year, but they're all tuned similarly or have very peculiar, off-putting tuning schemes. I have to wonder why they don't just release an alternate revision of one of them that more closely fits a western tuning like the Harmon 2019 curve. They likely wouldn't even need to change their driver selections, just adding in fabric tuning filters on their mid-treble and treble extension drivers and adjusting the crossover network slightly to retune the upper mids to treble gain. So it would be a relatively minor expense, all things considered, but it would open up more markets.

I suppose KZ is following Vsonic's footsteps of solely focusing on the local market and global markets will just be an add-on in their grand scheme of things.

 

[mndless]

I suppose KZ is following Vsonic's footsteps of solely focusing on the local market and global markets will just be an add-on in their grand scheme of things.

Well, they do have CCA which released the CKX. While it certainly isn't Harmon tuned, it's a bit less stabbey compared the KZ's usually offerings. Whenever my tuning paper filters and foam tuning plugs arrive, I'll attempt some additional manual tuning on my CKX and see what I can manage for them.

 

[MacAttack7]

Thanks, nope, I had no hand in development. Just helped along by some generous folks here @MRSallee and @RikudouGoku

One thing to note about my graphs and nearly all the other graphs from hobbyists with IEC711 couplers, there is usually an 8K peak from coupler resonance so that will introduce some variation in that range. Some people care more about the pre-8K parts of the graph due to this artifact. Always a good read is Crinacles post on it: https://crinacle.com/2020/04/08/graphs-101-how-to-read-headphone-measurements/

After reading that post by Crinacle I no longer have any interest in graphs.
I had no idea how complicated it was, and how many variables are involved.
I'll just keep donating my money to KZ and hope I get lucky.

 

[mndless]

After reading that post by Crinacle I no longer have any interest in graphs.
I had no idea how complicated it was, and how many variables are involved.
I'll just keep donating my money to KZ and hope I get lucky.

You can typically use graphs to gauge when there are any serious tuning crimes, particularly if you know there's a signature you're looking for, but they are never really going to offer you a 100% measure of whether you will like an IEM or not. I mainly use them to check on bass vs. treble gain, since I am treble sensitive and prefer a more bass-heavy signature. They can also be useful to look at how they're handling the mids transition from bass and into treble. Sharp transitions either side are a bit of a turn-off for me, but everyone has their own preferences, especially if they have a music library that calls for a particular type of tuning with those pronounced transitions.

 

[MacAttack7]

You can typically use graphs to gauge when there are any serious tuning crimes, particularly if you know there's a signature you're looking for, but they are never really going to offer you a 100% measure of whether you will like an IEM or not. I mainly use them to check on bass vs. treble gain, since I am treble sensitive and prefer a more bass-heavy signature. They can also be useful to look at how they're handling the mids transition from bass and into treble. Sharp transitions either side are a bit of a turn-off for me, but everyone has their own preferences, especially if they have a music library that calls for a particular type of tuning with those pronounced transitions.

But how can there be tuning crimes when the engineers designing the IEM's have the same graphs and even better measuring equipment?
If the graph looks a certain way it would seem that they intended for it to look that way, and for it to sound a certain way.
It just seems strange to me that a bunch of non-professional reviewers look at a graph and point out where the professional engineers screwed up.
Why would they intentionally put out an IEM with a screwed-up graph and sound if they can easily see the graph and hear it for themselves before releasing it?

 

[mndless]

But how can there be tuning crimes when the engineers designing the IEM's have the same graphs and even better measuring equipment?
If the graph looks a certain way it would seem that they intended for it to look that way, and for it to sound a certain way.
It just seems strange to me that a bunch of non-professional reviewers look at a graph and point out where the professional engineers screwed up.
Why would they intentionally put out an IEM with a screwed-up graph and sound if they can easily see the graph and hear it for themselves before releasing it?

Just because the sound engineers tuning a set intend for it to sound a specific way doesn't mean that there aren't tuning crimes involved that can, for instance, make everything but a very specific subset of music genres sound like absolute trash. Take, for instance, the Campfire Honeydew. It's an attractive little set with the tuning crime of an EXTREME bass gain. It sounds good on a handful of music genres, but apparently it garbles male vocals and makes it sound like they've eaten a mini subwoofer. As much as I love a good bassline, this graph frightens me. But from what gizaudio says, it's a fun set with a thunderous bassline that is nice to have for those times when you want to drown yourself in bass while still having some details hiding out in the treble.

Edit for clarification: If the Campfire Honeydew were cheaper, like in the $65-70 range instead of $250, I would definitely consider purchasing a set just for the novelty factor and because I love their charming little orange shells. But at that price, unless you're flush with cash or got them on an astonishingly good sale, these just aren't viable for the average consumer. They aren't something you just shell out for on a lark. This is especially true for the people in this forum thread where the most expensive IEM from KZ is half the cost of this model. For even more examples, check out the graphs for some of these other sets:

An $800 set this time from Earsonics with a massive bass shelf, but severely carved out lower mids, which makes them appropriate for a limited library of songs.

For an even more egregious set, we look at the RA C-Cu from oBravo. Honestly, if the 6K dip was from a measurement anomaly, I'm pretty sure Crinacle would have adjusted his setup until it hit at 8K like he tries to target. Aside from that, we get a 10dB channel gap at 130Hz, and massively recessed sub-bass. This aligns with Crinacle's actual review of this nearly $10,000 set. He was not happy about it, given all the hype and goodwill the brand has.

 

[Joseph Lin]

Which song in particular sounds bad to you, and which parts of the song?
I'll take a listen with mine and see if I get the same impression.
I'm pretty sure it's supposed to be a warm IEM, so that in itself isn't a fault.
It definitely sounds different than my DQ6.

All songs! It is too warm, I mean with the price tag this is really bad, not even worth tuning. I do not know why I was tempted to purchase it since I have many good IEMs already.

 

[Joseph Lin]

ouch. did u try changing the eartips? is the imaging (and other qualities) also similar to a $20 iem?

I tried many tips but why bother? It is a more than $100 IEM depending on where you purchase it from. The manufacturing quality is good but it missed the mark. No matter how pretty it is, if it does not sound good why pay more than $20? For decoration?

 

[Joseph Lin]

If it's tuned like the ASX, which it sounds like it might be, then it's absolutely horrible out of the box. Fortunately for the ASX, however, it responses very well to EQ and has become my favorite KZ due to that.

I suspect the AST will share a similar fate. I won't be purchasing it until settings appears for it on the AutoEQ github, if at all...

Don't buy it...it is not worth it.