Knowledge Zenith (KZ) impressions thread
Nov 11, 2020 at 2:47 AM Post #52,426 of 63,916
Nonetheless, if the ASF signature is enjoyable for some then that's great!
I don't consider myself a fan of too weird sound signatures, you know. And from your discription I still think you somehow heard different signature fom what I (and some other people here) have heard. That's why I've posted a graph of subjective hearing test there. There is no level drop (compared to 1kHz) at 8 or 12 kHz, only at very highs, at 16kHz. That's what I hear. I don't like "non existent" treble. Treble is there - with my tips and in my ears. Also no plato at higher mids/lower treble, only 6k is too hot. But there is no "honky vocal". It's not that I like or tolerate "honky vocal", with the frequency response I hear, there is no honkynes. Bass is thick, but still they sound quite open.

So, I don't know... There is an ear cannal differences or something?
 

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Nov 11, 2020 at 3:51 AM Post #52,427 of 63,916
Never seen such completely opposite opinions on an earphone.
I'm afraid to buy another one because I feel like there are 2 different versions out there.

My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.

The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.

I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.
 
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Nov 11, 2020 at 8:40 AM Post #52,429 of 63,916
My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.

The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.

I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.

I've learnt a lot about source matching here: https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/#:~:text=Pairing a headphone with an,driver control (damping factor).

Based on this "rules of eights" discussed here, they advise that the headphone/IEM impedance be divided by 8, and that is the maximum source output impedance that should be paired. Ie if you have a 32 ohm IEM, if this is divided by 8, then ideally a maximum 4 ohm output impedance for the source is the highest that you should be accepting for output impedance, so as not to affect sound quality. This is just a guide of course, exceptions exist and as usual YMMV.

So this article states: " “…if an amplifier's output impedance is significantly more than an eighth of the headphone’s impedance, the frequency response and sound of the headphone can change. This results in bigger mismatches and creates more variation from the headphone’s default sound signature. The way that a headphone responds to an amplifier with output impedance higher than one eighth of the headphone can be entirely erratic – different headphones will respond in different ways, but generally the results will be negative.” - RHA Audio

For the ASX and ASF, their impedance is 20 ohms and 18 ohms respectively, so dividing these by 8, the max source output impedance we can accept for the ASX is 2.5 ohms and for the ASF is 2.25 ohms.

For Audiosense T800, that is a much much more source picky IEM, with a reported output impedance is 9.2 ohms, so 9.2 divided by 8 means a 1.15ohm is the max source output impedance you should accept.

Are a lot of modern day DAPs and amps having output impedances of > 2 ohms or higher, which may affect the ASX and ASF? Maybe some folks who like to collect sources can advise. I'm not sure as I generally use IEMs so one of my criteria to buy sources is to have < 1 ohm output impedance, or close to zero as far as possible.
 
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Nov 11, 2020 at 8:46 AM Post #52,430 of 63,916
I am using mine wirh bt20s pro 99% of time
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 8:47 AM Post #52,431 of 63,916
My guess is it all boils down to the output impedance of whatever source these people are using.

The same polarizing opinion happened with the Audiosense T800. Basically, sources with high output impedance sounded like crap, but the T800 itself got blamed.

I’m willing to bet the exact same thing is happening in this case.

the usual story of multi BA driver: output impedance dependent :smile:

I'm becoming more intrigued by this ASF/ASX because of it's polarizing reviews. i might buy one or try to find a loaner if any of my friends purchase it
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 12:52 PM Post #52,435 of 63,916
People are saying the ZAX is a good companion for the CA16. ZAX for the higher-treble stuff.

But all the new KZs are highly contested in terms of which is better. ZAX a straight upgrade on ZS-10 Pro? There is division. Is ZAX more 'metallic' than ZSX?

Which of ASF and ASX is better value and more fun? ASX seems to have good technicalities, very good at making it seem like you are near the performance maybe, ASF may be more 'fun' sound. Hard to say what to buy.

[Then there is BLON BL-01, BL-05S, KBear Lark, TinHifi T2+ that have generally positive reception.]

If CA16 fits you fine, then I think some of the new KZ will as well.
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 1:50 PM Post #52,436 of 63,916
Nov 11, 2020 at 1:52 PM Post #52,437 of 63,916
People are saying the ZAX is a good companion for the CA16. ZAX for the higher-treble stuff.

But all the new KZs are highly contested in terms of which is better. ZAX a straight upgrade on ZS-10 Pro? There is division. Is ZAX more 'metallic' than ZSX?

Which of ASF and ASX is better value and more fun? ASX seems to have good technicalities, very good at making it seem like you are near the performance maybe, ASF may be more 'fun' sound. Hard to say what to buy.

[Then there is BLON BL-01, BL-05S, KBear Lark, TinHifi T2+ that have generally positive reception.]

If CA16 fits you fine, then I think some of the new KZ will as well.

CCA CA16 is very tricky, it took me extra $30 to experiment with the eartips to get the best sound...

I used CP800 Spinfit, believe it or not the sound rivaled Westone W60...
 
Nov 11, 2020 at 2:01 PM Post #52,438 of 63,916
Crap, sorry I meant KZ BA10 vs ASF

Actually, this is probably the best question regarding comparisons and here is why.
The BA10 and ASF are very much alike while simultaneously they are very different.

Sounds like doublespeak so I'll be more specific.

How are the BA10 and ASF alike?

a) bass texture, decay and cleanliness
b) the presentation balance between low, midrange and upper frequencies.
In other words their relation to each other.
For example, on a scale of 1 to 5 the bass level would be 4, midrange level would be 4 and the treble level would be a 3. This is true on both the BA10 and the ASF.

How are the BA10 and ASF different?

a) with the BA10 you are at a concert positioned several rows back from the stage and you're hearing the performers as you are seeing the performers. In other words you see the performers onstage as a group from left to right.
b) with the ASF you are at the same concert but you are actually on stage with the performers surrounding you. They are close in and are performing for you and you alone.

Someone referred to Breaking Benjamin earlier so I'll use that track.

Here, the lead singer and all band members are practically staring you down as if to say "check me out" or "can you feel me?".
It's pretty cool, actually.



In an earlier post I commented on Sade's "Mr. Wrong". and Federico Aubele's "Postales". I enjoy both presentations equally but the difference is that the ASF delivers a more emotional presentation because the instruments and vocals are more forward and individually highlighted. It's a one on one experience as opposed to the BA10's equally impressive but less direct approach.





I think the differences are due more to the housing design of the BA10 vs the ASF. For the last two years I've wondered what the BA10 would sound like with similar tuning if KZ designed an in-ear that employed the internal acoustic structure found in the AS10. I did not want to try the AS10 due to its elevated mid-bass punch but if I could get an AS10 without the mid-bass punch I'd be all over it. Again, I don't own the AS10 but it seemed to me that directing those frequencies through ducts/channels would increase the focus. That is the way I hear the ASF. A direct and focused delivery as opposed to taking everything in as a whole.

With the ASF I am in the forest admiring the character of each particular tree.
With the BA10 I am admiring the forest from a slightly further vantage point.

On some recordings the ASF sounds natural and amazing. On Sade's "Mr. Wrong" the percussion on the left and drums on the right (at 56 seconds) sound very natural. I found that the following tracks convey a good sense of emotion on the ASF.







On other recordings the internal acoustic structure can overcook the upper midrange frequencies. It depends on the dynamics of the recording. With some electronic tracks you can definitely hear the digital processing in the recording.






The ASF shares the same weakness that the ZS3 has, namely that the sound being channeled through a tube on the ZS3 and "internal acoustic structure" on the ASF can sometimes exacerbate a peaky upper midrange.

I need to spend more time with the ASF for classical and rock genres so the jury is still out on compatibility there, for me, but personally, I'd put the BA10 and ASF on equal footing being mindful of their respective strengths and weaknesses.

The BA10 would be less controversial for folks who seek "air" via treble extension (despite the ASF and BA10 similarities). I wouldn't call the ASF "airy" but I wouldn't call the ASF "congested" either. It's simply a one-on-one performance that works for me.
 
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Nov 11, 2020 at 2:01 PM Post #52,439 of 63,916

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