[purplesun]

CA16 iirc but I am not too sure.

Thanks, CA16's has been on my radar anyway. I'll probably get that.

EDIT:
So went looking for CA16, and ordered ASF
That plan lasted all of 10 minutes!

 

[chinmie]

When you change a string on a guitar or violin, does it sound the same right away?

Having said this, I do believe that the brain adjustment plays a significant (if not a major) role in the "burn-in" effect.

guitar or violin strings would sound different from new over time because it will trap sweat and corode/deteriorate that it would sound dampened (compared to newly fresh out of the pack)

but if you're using coated strings like, for say, Elixirs, then no, they would not change over time.

 

[Alpha Whale]

That's why I said it over and over again that the stock white tips are trash. Complete utter garbage.

I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.

When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear.

*** no

*** no! I have zs3 and the asf sound miles better than that. The zs3 is okay but its the old KZ sound (dark and very recessed vocal)

Why are the reviews so polarising? Is there a massive problem with the qc?

So far we either had a "it is their best iem" and "stay away, it is horrible". Nothing in between. That does not feel normal.

It can either be bad fit or they got a lemon.

None of these affect the sound tho.

It is possible that it is a quality control issue. I don't own multiple sets so I can't comment regarding output consistency but I do have a theory that may be plausible.

That what I was thinking......afraid to order another one with these strange opposing opinions.
He hates the lows. I don't notice anything wrong with them. In fact that was probably the first thing I liked when I listened to them.
He says female vocals are muffled. I say nope, not even close. They are quite clear and forward to me.
He says male vocals are nasal and wonky. I say nope, not hearing this at all.
He says Cymbal strikes and hi-hats are barely registered. I think maybe these sounds could be brighter...not sure.
Not experienced enough to comment on his other points.

Here is my theory.

The ASF has a sound signature that is somewhat reminiscent of the ZS3 with big bass, a natural-to-borderline shouty midrange and rolled off treble. In addition, the ZS3 fit like a glove. One of the quirks of the ZS3 was how much the eartip seal could effect the bass response. If you had an absolute airtight seal the bass could overwhelm the midrange and push the already rolled off treble in to oblivion. If the person experiencing that feedback from the ZS3 would step down a size (from medium to small or from large to medium) the bass would still come through full but less boomy. This in turn would allow the midrange to come forward a bit more and the lower treble would give the ZS3 a slight sense of air with improved separation.

One eartip provides a muffled presentation while another eartip provides the manufacturers intended more natural presentation. Same earphone just a different eartip.

I think we may be revisiting the same exact issue with the ASF/ASX because the fit is even more glove-like, the nozzle goes deep into the canal and the soft eartip contours to the shape of your ear canal giving an airtight seal. One person hears a muffled mess while another person hears a warm signature with natural tones and fatigue-free treble response.

Given the ASF/ASX glove-like fit and design it was destined to be a controversial in-ear from the start. This is why I believe KZ spent time designing the eartip specifically for these models. I haven't seen this eartip on any other KZ (please alert me if I am incorrect) though I imagine they may have used it on the ZSX (not sure).

For me, the Comply T-100 thins the low frequency to where the sub-bass is non-existent, the Klipsch oval tips condense the midrange negatively while still other eartips effect the ASF delivery to one degree or another.

The eartip is king in the ear of the beholder.

Still enjoying my ASF regardless.

 

[PhonoPhi]

guitar or violin strings would sound different from new over time because it will trap sweat and corode/deteriorate that it would sound dampened (compared to newly fresh out of the pack)

but if you're using coated strings like, for say, Elixirs, then no, they would not change over time.

I can definitely tell about violin strings - they are under very strong tension, so the new strings set into their pitch for at least a day or so, and they may get their best sound only few days later, after which they slowly decay in performance. Non-wound steel strings settle faster but they are nowadays used largely for E.

While not directly under tension, BA drivers may also require some time to settle to their stationary state with all the moving components and friction settling into an equilibrium state.

 

[chinmie]

I can definitely tell about violin strings - they are under very strong tension, so the new strings set into their pitch for at least a day or so, and they may get their best sound only few days later, after which they slowly decay in performance. Non-wound steel strings settle faster but they are nowadays used largely for E.

While not directly under tension, BA drivers may also require some time to settle to their stationary state with all the moving components and friction settling into an equilibrium state.

yup, similar to nylon guitar strings, they would go slight out of tune for the first day or two before they stretched. i can't play the violin past beginner level but I'm fortunate enough to be able to tune them.

i can't comment on BA driver burn in, because i haven't yet found (at least on sets that i have tried from fresh out of the box) any changes on sound after some playtime.. i can't say there are no BA burn in out there, but i haven't experienced them myself.

also to be considered that changes in sound from new can also be the result of changes on the tuning filters (they might absorb moistures) and also the settling in of position (might be that after a few days it finally found sweet spot or best way of fitting in the the ears).

BA drivers though, i found to be usually much more tip dependent than DDs, so that's where i focused the most to find the right one for them

 

[voicemaster]

I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.

When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear.









It is possible that it is a quality control issue. I don't own multiple sets so I can't comment regarding output consistency but I do have a theory that may be plausible.



Here is my theory.

The ASF has a sound signature that is somewhat reminiscent of the ZS3 with big bass, a natural-to-borderline shouty midrange and rolled off treble. In addition, the ZS3 fit like a glove. One of the quirks of the ZS3 was how much the eartip seal could effect the bass response. If you had an absolute airtight seal the bass could overwhelm the midrange and push the already rolled off treble in to oblivion. If the person experiencing that feedback from the ZS3 would step down a size (from medium to small or from large to medium) the bass would still come through full but less boomy. This in turn would allow the midrange to come forward a bit more and the lower treble would give the ZS3 a slight sense of air with improved separation.

One eartip provides a muffled presentation while another eartip provides the manufacturers intended more natural presentation. Same earphone just a different eartip.

I think we may be revisiting the same exact issue with the ASF/ASX because the fit is even more glove-like, the nozzle goes deep into the canal and the soft eartip contours to the shape of your ear canal giving an airtight seal. One person hears a muffled mess while another person hears a warm signature with natural tones and fatigue-free treble response.

Given the ASF/ASX glove-like fit and design it was destined to be a controversial in-ear from the start. This is why I believe KZ spent time designing the eartip specifically for these models. I haven't seen this eartip on any other KZ (please alert me if I am incorrect) though I imagine they may have used it on the ZSX (not sure).

For me, the Comply T-100 thins the low frequency to where the sub-bass is non-existent, the Klipsch oval tips condense the midrange negatively while still other eartips effect the ASF delivery to one degree or another.

The eartip is king in the ear of the beholder.

Still enjoying my ASF regardless.

You can either cut the foam tips (shorten it) or buy the foam tips that I mentioned earlier.

 

[alamnp]

ehmmm judging from CA16 I have received, I have a clue that they send the ear tip from CCA... Yep, they suck big time... I had to buy Spinfit CP800 for it...

I had to literally buy 7 different eartips and wasted $30 to get the best fit for CA16...

ASX/ASF seemed to go down this path.

 

[baskingshark]

I understand your sentiment but I respectively disagree. I think that KZ actually spent a good amount of time designing the included eartips (with ASF/ASX) instead of just throwing in the standard eartips they've been including for the last three years. Their standard-issue eartips would negatively effect the fit and comfort of the ASF/ASX. KZ needed to design an eartip that is very soft with a narrow collar so it could slip in to the ear canal without negatively effecting the ASF/ASX glove-like fit. My ASF fits like a custom in-ear. It doesn't budge.

When I attach the Comply foams the ASF protrudes a bit. It's not uncomfortable but the ASF no longer fits me like a made-to-order custom in-ear.









It is possible that it is a quality control issue. I don't own multiple sets so I can't comment regarding output consistency but I do have a theory that may be plausible.



Here is my theory.

The ASF has a sound signature that is somewhat reminiscent of the ZS3 with big bass, a natural-to-borderline shouty midrange and rolled off treble. In addition, the ZS3 fit like a glove. One of the quirks of the ZS3 was how much the eartip seal could effect the bass response. If you had an absolute airtight seal the bass could overwhelm the midrange and push the already rolled off treble in to oblivion. If the person experiencing that feedback from the ZS3 would step down a size (from medium to small or from large to medium) the bass would still come through full but less boomy. This in turn would allow the midrange to come forward a bit more and the lower treble would give the ZS3 a slight sense of air with improved separation.

One eartip provides a muffled presentation while another eartip provides the manufacturers intended more natural presentation. Same earphone just a different eartip.

I think we may be revisiting the same exact issue with the ASF/ASX because the fit is even more glove-like, the nozzle goes deep into the canal and the soft eartip contours to the shape of your ear canal giving an airtight seal. One person hears a muffled mess while another person hears a warm signature with natural tones and fatigue-free treble response.

Given the ASF/ASX glove-like fit and design it was destined to be a controversial in-ear from the start. This is why I believe KZ spent time designing the eartip specifically for these models. I haven't seen this eartip on any other KZ (please alert me if I am incorrect) though I imagine they may have used it on the ZSX (not sure).

For me, the Comply T-100 thins the low frequency to where the sub-bass is non-existent, the Klipsch oval tips condense the midrange negatively while still other eartips effect the ASF delivery to one degree or another.

The eartip is king in the ear of the beholder.

Still enjoying my ASF regardless.

Good points. Eartips can make or break an IEM -> see case in point BLON BL-03 with the too short stock eartips, which necessitate a lot to use aftermarket longer tips/spacer mods due to the overly short nozzle. I think eartips have a much bigger effect on an IEM than burn in or cable changes. I always try a few pairs of aftermarket eartips on an IEM before giving up on a bad sounding IEM. Though, I think we are the minority that are quite hardcore about this hobby and have multiple eartips lying about and know about tip rolling. I can see that vast majority of lay consumers will probably not do eartip rolling and will just use whatever is OOTB.

Also as we all have different ear anatomies, an aftermarket eartip that fits one perfectly may sound or fit like crap for another, YMMV. I dunno if there's a good way around this, but I try to do A/B testing/reviews as far as possible with only the stock accessories, as that is probably what most people will be using when they open the box. And at least we will all be using a common baseline eartip for discussion purposes. After reviewing, just for casual music listening, I swap back my favourite ear tips and cables on the IEM.

The strange thing about the ASX and ASF is that the treble looks quite rolled off already on graphs. And if u guys are recommending foams with it, doesn't that tame the already tamed treble (in general foam tames upper frequencies)?





https://www.head-fi.org/threads/iba...-enjoy-the-music.934980/page-30#post-15775831

Well on to another area, burn in is a very controversial subject here, I respect both camps, but in this above thread, james444 showed some small measured changes from zero hours to 60 minutes with burn in of the iBasso IT00, which is a single DD set. I know it ain't a BA set, and brain burn in definitely plays a part too, but quite interesting measurements here!

 

[brianforever]

The zax and asf are in the same price bracket. If you ask me which one I would get, I would get the asf, but the fit is different in the asf. It is bigger and has custom iem body style which won't fit some people at all. While the zax is smaller and easier to fit for most people's ears.

Haha @voicemaster Thanks for the advice, too late, already ordered the KZ ZAX, otw to me as we speak

but besides the ill fit, why choose the KZ ASF since you point out the negatives on them?

 

[voicemaster]

Haha @voicemaster Thanks for the advice, too late, already ordered the KZ ZAX, otw to me as we speak

but besides the ill fit, why choose the KZ ASF since you point out the negatives on them?

The negative is the fit which is really differ from person to person because the ASF body is larger than the ZAX and has custom shell type body which won't fit for some people. But, if the ASX fit your ears, it will fit much better than the ZAX. In term of sound, the ASF has better imaging and depth, instrument separation and more intimate vocal. I compared them extensively before and whenever I am going back to the ZAX, I can hear the overly tuned treble and prefer the treble on the ASF. Still love both, but the ZAX started to become bench warmer.

 

[Groovistico]

Try some foam tips if you haven't.

I only have some chinese foams from ali. But I think the treble is better with Fiio tips.

I've always gotten the best fit and sound with aftermarket tips on all my earphones. Sometimes the difference is small (i.e. stock tips aren't bad), sometimes it's large (stock tips are terrible). Knowing that means that I have to take a lot of reviews and graphs with a grain of salt, because I don't know if a) the stock tips are the best for the earphones in question or b) if the stock tips would be best for the reviewer (or me). As a result, the reviews that I value the most are the ones where reviewers try different tips, talk about them and the effect on fit and sound. Then I try to triangulate that with my experiences to come up with a personal guesstimate on what I think I'll experience.

Manufacturers should tune their sound well with the tips they supply. Not everybody has a lot of their own tips! Sure, you can order after market tips, but you can't predict the sound. For example, Fiio bigger bore tips I use bring a lot of unwanted mid bass on f9se. On KZs they do the opposite thing. So how many tips one will have to order to get the best sound? How do you even choose what to order, if you don't have any tips but the stock?

Here's the newest review:
https://www.audioreviews.org/kz-asf-review-kmm/

Well, ASF do have a strange frequency response and manufacturer should tune them more balanced. But some things the review say makes me wonder, if they listened to it. The vocals sound clear and open, right from the start even with stock tips. Looks like they just discribing the frequency graph and imagine the sound...


I'll add this picture of hearing test made on ASF. Its not very accurate, but gives an example of what I hear with my ears. Not the most neutral, but quite different from the graph.

 

[BubisUK]

I only have some chinese foams from ali. But I think the treble is better with Fiio tips.


Manufacturers should tune their sound well with the tips they supply. Not everybody has a lot of their own tips! Sure, you can order after market tips, but you can't predict the sound. For example, Fiio bigger bore tips I use bring a lot of unwanted mid bass on f9se. On KZs they do the opposite thing. So how many tips one will have to order to get the best sound? How do you even choose what to order, if you don't have any tips but the stock?


Well, ASF do have a strange frequency response and manufacturer should tune them more balanced. But some things the review say makes me wonder, if they listened to it. The vocals sound clear and open, right from the start even with stock tips. Looks like they just discribing the frequency graph and imagine the sound...


I'll add this picture of hearing test made on ASF. Its not very accurate, but gives an example of what I hear with my ears. Not the most neutral, but quite different from the graph.

You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game

 

[seanwee]

You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game

Yes, measurements are useful at high frequencies but if you see wierd spikes/dips in the higher frequencies it's likely a resonance peak.

 

[Groovistico]

You can not solely rely on the graphs as I have read somewhere, don't remember where now, that depending on the testing equipment there is a drop in around 8-10k region when in real life, there is no such drop. Maybe someone more knowledgeable can give his opinion on this And that trebble region can be affected by the depth of insertion in the ear canal as well. There are a lot of variables in this game

The measurements are made using one tips, I use another, thats all. Stock tips and some others do have a treble roll off, maybe not as much as 10db thou. But even with roll off you can hear some detail, it's just a bit quiet and tonal balance is not quite right. That way they are more "smooth".

 

[BubisUK]

The measurements are made using one tips, I use another, thats all. Stock tips and some others do have a treble roll off, maybe not as much as 10db thou. But even with roll off you can hear some detail, it's just a bit quiet and tonal balance is not quite right. That way they are more "smooth".

I am not that ocd about something not being a bit off of some ideal measurement. For me ASX is easily in top 3 from what iem's I have heard so farr