KGSShv Carbon - hows it sound with the 009s?
Sep 22, 2015 at 8:47 AM Post #46 of 834
How far away? I might be able to buy both next year. (Trying to do it this year is really pushing it.)


There are home improvements I want doing before getting a Carbon, also since using Mullard xf4's I'm now very happy with how my 009's sound driven by the BHSE, so I'm in no rush for a Carbon.

With that said, getting a Carbon might be two or three years away.
 
Sep 22, 2015 at 9:49 AM Post #47 of 834
My T2 will be done by years end or so. I will also plan for a Carbon. But I'm much more interested in the circlotron.
 
I get where Earspeakers and Astro are coming from. More so agree with Astro. Unless you're a collector, the object is getting the best. That is, perhaps also factoring in price or value.
This is where KG designs rule. Now, if your ears tell you the Stax stuff is only 3% behind, so be it. If your ears tell you
the differences are much larger, so be it as well. I agree with Earspeakers when it comes to hear it for yourself and form your own conclusions.
 
Sep 22, 2015 at 4:59 PM Post #48 of 834
Objective and idle reports on the internet? Anyhow I don't think that a decent opinion can be formed without having it in your house for a good period of time. The used market is active enough that it should be easy to try for yourself, plus meetups to give at least a taste. Doesn't have to cost anything either, there is a member here who has owned nearly every headphone for little cost, just selling for what he bought them for. 
  The other issue is that I see market distortions because of the opinions of a few individuals. In Stax, the favored headphones and amps are impossible to find, and the disliked ones easy and cheap. Interestingly my opinions (owning both) are opposite to the supposed consensus.
 
My 2cents, certainly this won't stop people from basing their listening decisions on other opinions. 

 
I meant that some aspects of sound are objective enough to translate into impressions accurately. And once you read enough impressions of people's experiences with each amp, you get a better feel for what you want to go after. ...Though in the case of these amps, they're all so good that it's tough to gauge, so yes...while it is naturally better to hear it for yourself for extended periods, again, the issue is that these amps are very expensive and not many people could afford to buy them, even if the strategy is to buy one, sell it, buy another, sell it, etc. I have been able to own many more headphones (and other gear) than I would normally be able to by buying, selling, and trading on the used market, and didn't lose much money in the process...but these amps are a different story entirely. Plus, I wouldn't want to sell any of them until I knew which ones sounded best to me. Some of them aren't so easy to acquire again, after all. But still, you have a point. For some people, including myself, I suppose the ideal solution would be to simply buy them all at one point...which would be more than a little crazy.
 
  OK I Accept the apology / point you make. But I stand by the forum advice I have given in the past. The levels of SQ in the various models is huge. The chance of folk posting here, especially newbies, and the impossible task of hearing a KG amp or a BHSE at home. Most end up buying the current Stax amp offerings and then loose interest and either sell it years later, or go back to speakers of Planars. I makes me weep. There is some FANTASTIC sound possible with the right gear, and more can get there with good advice.
 
I dig your 'collection' of older Stax amps. It might not align with most users though. Amps blow up and caps fail, Lambdas fall apart. I am not a fan. But that is why this forum is good, we throw opinions out there, and newbies go out and (hopefully) get a good system to suit their budget.

 
"Impossible task" is how I would word it as well, though not in the literal sense.
 
I'm realizing more and more that non-electrostats simply aren't good enough for me to use as my main headphone...but concerning the Lambdas...as I said on the previous page, I actually like the SR-207 more than all non-electrostats regardless of price. (Though that's an in-production model, not one that was made decades ago.)
 
  My T2 will be done by years end or so. I will also plan for a Carbon. But I'm much more interested in the circlotron.
 
I get where Earspeakers and Astro are coming from. More so agree with Astro. Unless you're a collector, the object is getting the best. That is, perhaps also factoring in price or value.
This is where KG designs rule. Now, if your ears tell you the Stax stuff is only 3% behind, so be it. If your ears tell you
the differences are much larger, so be it as well. I agree with Earspeakers when it comes to hear it for yourself and form your own conclusions.

 
So excited for you about the T2!
 
I'm still debating with myself whether it would be worth it to just make do with an SRM-323S for awhile and try going for a DIY T2 (with both STAX and HE 90 outputs) instead of a BHSE, KGSSHV Carbon, etc.
 
Just to be clear, when you say Circlotron, are you referring to the Nanotube? If not, what?
 
Sep 22, 2015 at 5:49 PM Post #49 of 834
I maybe able to answer the BHSE vs. KGSSHV carbon questions when mine is built toward the end of the year.  I can't say for sure when but by that time someone might already post an impression between the two.  Also, each DIY amp will sound slightly different depending on the parts used....however all of KG amps have proven to sound excellent for the price.  I can't imagine anyone want to pay full price for Stax amplifiers when they can just grab a full-size KGSSHV for around 2.2-2.7k from the FS FT forum.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 12:00 AM Post #50 of 834
Yes absolutely go for the T2 if you can can line up a quality builder, but in the meantime definitely grab a KGSShv. Don't have your 009 languish on a Stax amp for months, when an HV gets you SO FAR into top echelon quality; it's the sweet spot in price/performance. Seriously, I'd rather put the 009 into storage than run it on a 323. If you're swinging a 009 and T2 build funds, then you can afford a nice used HV for just over $2k. I prefer the full-size builds, but the minis can still be quite good. Gotta say, I don't get the mini-fication of these badass amps. What, so I can fit it on a nightstand by the lamp? On the bathroom sink before the next girlfriend moves in?
 
I'll also have a Carbon on the way maybe late this year (full size, HV), but I'm still jealous of the lucky few with T2's in possession or on the way! I'll bet that the T2 will remain the standard.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 12:30 AM Post #51 of 834
  Yes absolutely go for the T2 if you can can line up a quality builder, but in the meantime definitely grab a KGSShv. Don't have your 009 languish on a Stax amp for months, when an HV gets you SO FAR into top echelon quality; it's the sweet spot in price/performance. Seriously, I'd rather put the 009 into storage than run it on a 323. If you're swinging a 009 and T2 build funds, then you can afford a nice used HV for just over $2k. I prefer the full-size builds, but the minis can still be quite good. Gotta say, I don't get the mini-fication of these badass amps. What, so I can fit it on a nightstand by the lamp? On the bathroom sink before the next girlfriend moves in?
 
I'll also have a Carbon on the way maybe late this year (full size, HV), but I'm still jealous of the lucky few with T2's in possession or on the way! I'll bet that the T2 will remain the standard.

 
Well, the KGSSHV Carbon is $4,600, and I don't want a lesser KGSSHV if I'm going to bother spending four figures on an amp. I'd prefer to buy new as well. And if I'm going to spend $4,600 on an amp, I might as well go all-out with a BHSE or something even better. I really don't mind starting out with the 323 and using it for awhile because once I do spend ~$2,800 on the SR-009 from PriceJapan, it would be pushing my foreseeable 2015 budget as it is. I most likely won't be buying any of these high-end electrostat amps until next year, at which time budget will be less of a restricting force. But I was actually thinking it would be better to get the Schiit Yggdrasil and Smyth Realiser A8 taken care of before jumping into the hardcore 'stat amp game.
 
If you're enamored by the prospect of the DIY T2, check out the new Nanotube! (I believe it and the Circlotron are synonymous, but I could be mistaken.)
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/774767/nanotube-the-newest-electrostatic-amp-by-kevin-gilmore
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 1:15 AM Post #52 of 834
I also want to know if the Carbon/NT scale the 007 like the BHSE and T2 reportedly do. 
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 5:50 AM Post #53 of 834
   
Well, the KGSSHV Carbon is $4,600, and I don't want a lesser KGSSHV if I'm going to bother spending four figures on an amp. I'd prefer to buy new as well. And if I'm going to spend $4,600 on an amp, I might as well go all-out with a BHSE or something even better. I really don't mind starting out with the 323 and using it for awhile because once I do spend ~$2,800 on the SR-009 from PriceJapan, it would be pushing my foreseeable 2015 budget as it is. I most likely won't be buying any of these high-end electrostat amps until next year, at which time budget will be less of a restricting force. But I was actually thinking it would be better to get the Schiit Yggdrasil and Smyth Realiser A8 taken care of before jumping into the hardcore 'stat amp game.
 
If you're enamored by the prospect of the DIY T2, check out the new Nanotube! (I believe it and the Circlotron are synonymous, but I could be mistaken.)
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/774767/nanotube-the-newest-electrostatic-amp-by-kevin-gilmore


You are already in hardcore stat amp game, as your 009 is strangled on that Stax amp. May as well have bought a 507...
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 5:58 AM Post #54 of 834
  You are already in hardcore stat amp game, as your 009 is strangled on that Stax amp. May as well have bought a 507...

 
So in other words, you think a KGSSHV Carbon would result in greater sound improvements than that DAC and virtual surround sound processor?
 
By the way, the SR-009 is technically easier to drive than the SR-507. They both have the same impedance (145k Ω @ 10kHz) but the SR-507 has a lower sensitivity of 100dB / 100V RMS @ 1 kHz while the SR-009 has a sensitivity of 101dB / 100V RMS @ 1 kHz. So barely any difference as far as those specs go. And the differences between them in terms of sound should be obvious regardless of the amp used.
 
Anyway, I probably won't be able to afford anything more than the SR-009 + SRM-323S this year.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 8:40 AM Post #55 of 834
Along with the 009's, I also have the SR-003mk2's, to which both earspeakers are driven by the BHSE.
Now I haven't heard the 009's with an SRM-323, but have with an SRM-007t + 717, and I assume the 007t and 717 will probably drive the 009's as good if not better than the 323.
 
So with me knowing the difference in SQ between the 009's and 003mk2's driven by the BHSE, and also knowing how the 009's sounded driven by both Stax amps mentioned, then if I didn't have any stats gear, and I'd only enough to get either the BHSE / SR-003mk2, or SR-009 / SRM-323, I would without doubt get the BHSE / 003mk2, I'd then get the 009's when I'd the money saved.
 
Yes I find the 009's do sound better than the 003mk2's driven by the BHSE, in that the 009's are more open sounding with better separation, but the detail and transparency difference isn't as big as some might think.
 
For me the only downside with the 003mk2's is after so long they become uncomfortable, but they are the best value for money phones I've ever heard, driven by the BHSE that is.
 
P.S. Although I've not heard the KGSSHV Carbon, reading what Birgir has written on his website about his KGSSHV Carbon being up there with the BHSE and DIY T2, then I would also get a KGSSHV Carbon / SR-003mk2 rather than an SR-009 / SRM-323, then again getting the 009's when I'd the money saved.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 11:04 AM Post #56 of 834
  Yes I find the 009's do sound better than the 003mk2's driven by the BHSE, in that the 009's are more open sounding with better separation, but the detail and transparency difference isn't as big as some might think.

 
The 003 isn't that far from a 009? That's an amazing statement. I'd agree that the Lambdas, other Omegas, Sigma and even the 4070 aren't that much different, but the 003? 
 
I use them at work because they're unobtrusive, don't bother my neighbors, and are still in the Stax pantheon, but I'd hardly class them with the others. 
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 11:50 AM Post #57 of 834
   
The 003 isn't that far from a 009? That's an amazing statement. I'd agree that the Lambdas, other Omegas, Sigma and even the 4070 aren't that much different, but the 003? 
 
I use them at work because they're unobtrusive, don't bother my neighbors, and are still in the Stax pantheon, but I'd hardly class them with the others. 

Have you tried driving them with a BHSE?
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 1:42 PM Post #58 of 834
The 003 isn't that far from a 009? That's an amazing statement. I'd agree that the Lambdas, other Omegas, Sigma and even the 4070 aren't that much different, but the 003? 

I use them at work because they're unobtrusive, don't bother my neighbors, and are still in the Stax pantheon, but I'd hardly class them with the others. 


Do you have the SR-003's, or SR-003mk2's ?, I ask this because the 003mk2's have a thinner, lighter diaphragm which apparently makes them more detailed and transparent than the 003's. ( I've only heard the SR-003mk2's and never the 003's )
Also what are you driving your 003's with, and with what source ?

I assume your 003's aren't driven by a BHSE, and the source used probably isn't to the same level as the K-01.
So please, when you get the oppotunity, try some 003mk2's along with 009's driven by the BHSE ( using NOS Mullard tubes that is ) and a source at a similar level to the K-01, then post your thoughts.
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 2:05 PM Post #59 of 834
Do you have the SR-003's, or SR-003mk2's ?, I ask this because the 003mk2's have a thinner, lighter diaphragm which apparently makes them more detailed and transparent than the 003's. ( I've only heard the SR-003mk2's and never the 003's )
Also what are you driving your 003's with, and with what source ?

I assume your 003's aren't driven by a BHSE, and the source used probably isn't to the same level as the K-01.
So please, when you get the oppotunity, try some 003mk2's along with 009's driven by the BHSE ( using NOS Mullard tubes that is ) and a source at a similar level to the K-01, then post your thoughts.


I see a lot of this subject on head-fi, not as much on other audio forums like AudioGon. I don't get why folk can't see (hear) that the Source, the Amplifier and the end Speaker / Headphones are all 33.5% of the total SQ you will attain. 
 
To put it more simply, would you expect an Opel Corsa to suddenly out perform a BMW M3 because it has been fitted with the same uprated tyres? No, of course not.
 
In effect, the best headphone in the world tagged on the end of anything short of a great quality source and amplifier will simply reveal all the warts and all. In fact, I would suggest a 507 with a standard Stax amp will sound more balanced than an 009 from a 323 amp. Certainly the 507 will be a more balanced system IMO. The 009 out of a 323 may get fatiguing...
 
Sep 23, 2015 at 2:29 PM Post #60 of 834
I'd agree that the amplifier is a far bigger determinant of resulting sound quality with top Staxes than with any dynamic headphones, at least until you get up to the level of a KGSShv. It makes no sense to hold back the 009 with a Stax-made amp -- finding a nice Lambda/Stax amp pairing sorta seems more reasonable. Though I suppose I can see importing a PJ 009 now (well in advance of securing a decent amp) if you're speculating that the exchange rate will get worse in the future.
 
As for DACs, yeah that's important too, but the 3K/Yggy/R2R thing isn't a requirement. Just don't get a bright DAC; not all DS are bright (e.g. Eximus DP1 is nice and warm). I've also been very happy with the lowly NAD M51, which retails at only 2K and can be had for just over 1K used. I have a very nice analog setup for my speakers (Clearaudio Innovation, Graham Phantom, Koetsu Onyx, Ortofon Cadenza, etc), and I haven't felt the need to bring it over to the Stax setup -- the sound from the M51/KGSShv/009 is top notch as-is.
 

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