KG Megatron vs KG Stax T2
Aug 1, 2023 at 12:36 PM Post #16 of 80
Again, fantastic writeup and thanks for doing this! We're always hungry for more impressions at this level of electrostat gear, especially with as much time, care and thought as you've put here (meet impressions - meh). I'm still slightly surprised the T2 comes off at all as lean or bright, even just in relation to Megatron - but then I haven't heard a Megatron (or X9000) yet.

I finally dug up my 404LE and threw them on T2 for the first time. I'm shocked how fun and enjoyable that was. I kept them as my main headphone listen last weekend. Wonderful balance, and a truly elevated lambda performance. Might be a better T2 match than L700. I don't doubt even cheaper lambdas can do incredible things on either of these amps.
 
Aug 1, 2023 at 4:54 PM Post #17 of 80
Again, fantastic writeup and thanks for doing this! We're always hungry for more impressions at this level of electrostat gear, especially with as much time, care and thought as you've put here (meet impressions - meh). I'm still slightly surprised the T2 comes off at all as lean or bright, even just in relation to Megatron - but then I haven't heard a Megatron (or X9000) yet.

I finally dug up my 404LE and threw them on T2 for the first time. I'm shocked how fun and enjoyable that was. I kept them as my main headphone listen last weekend. Wonderful balance, and a truly elevated lambda performance. Might be a better T2 match than L700. I don't doubt even cheaper lambdas can do incredible things on either of these amps.
Thank you for the kind words :) I will continue writing, but usually need more listening time before feeling confident to decide to (dis)like or judge about a certain configuration lastingly (does not mean that I do not get a strong first impression though).
In the meantime new tubes for Megatron arrived and from first listen I can already say I did not regret buying these. If I had an idea how much Megatron reacts on tube rolling of the first 2 stages, I would have started tube rolling much earlier. For first stage I got beside the Telefunken ECC82 also a pair of Tungsram ECC82 and for 2nd stage vintage Mullards ECC83 from 60s. So much fun combining them, searching for synergy. Right now listening to 009 with the Tele ECC82, Mullard ECC83 and Tesla EL34. Whatever I might say later, but this is simply freaking good!
New input tubes for T2 are ordered, but it is a bit complicated and takes some more time.

I never listened to the 404, but I´m sure you had fun with them as I have with the 307s :)

About the T2, the attribute bright (resp. brighter) I used really in relation to Megatron, not in absolute terms (and it depends on the tubes applied in Megatron).
Btw., you were mentioning the lower input voltage of your vinyl rig resulting in barely enough volume on certain amps. The gain of Megatron is a bit on the lower side, definetely lower than T2, 10 o`clock on T2 is about 11:30 at Megatron (no issue with balanced input of typical DACs).
 
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Aug 4, 2023 at 2:50 AM Post #18 of 80
A recent listening session with @Schelp san (T2, Carbon and Megatron, plus pretty much every non-Lambda Stax headphone from 007mki to x9000s, along with Sigma/404s) confirms for me the following:

--Megatron is indeed very close to T2. Much closer than price differences indicate. At first, I was relieved, because for the first 30 minutes of listening I felt no pressure to buy a T2. Budget saved! But after three hours of comparisons, I don't agree that they are equals in any way. True, for several tracks in a row, I barely heard a difference, or none at all. Only in specific cases did a recording really jump out as superior on T2...but then once I noticed the differences, I started and continued to notice T2's uber-powerful presentation of every single frigging note. Nothing else offers T2-level detail and oomph. If there is a way that Megatron is superior, it is in that I can listen to Megatron for 10 hours with zero fatigue. If I tried that on T2, I'd go into shock from endorphin OD, sell all the rest of my gear save one headphone, and probably abandon my family in order to live in domestic bliss with T2. So, score one for Megatron :)

--Megatron does indeed benefit from tube rolling. Some tube combinations make Megatron sound like a 'near-T2' but with a bit less oomph. So, with great reluctance (but even greater aversion to spending five figures on an amplifier), tubes are the next step of my 'journey'.

--T2 combines the always-smooth presentation of Megatron with the transparent detail of Carbon...and does it better in nearly every use case (e.g., Grandmaster Flash and the Furious Five sounds ridiculous in a bad way on Carbon, tired on Megatron...and 'It's party time!' on T2). In purely technical and scientific language, I proclaim that T2 sounds the way T2-era Arnold looks.

--Carbon with Sigma/404s or 007mki continues to be my favourite combination, even moreso than whatever I heard through T2 or Megatron. If I only listened to the kind of music I prefer on Carbon, I would have no need for T2 or Megatron. But...Carbon sounds like (to me) being in a cathedral, and I like cathedrals, just not always. Megatron sounds like a near-perfect studio recording, which also I like but not always. And, if you've got ten-fifteen grand to spare, who doesn't enjoy having an Austrian bodybuilder wrapped around your ears?

@Schelp san will surely have more thorough observations.
--
P.S. I'm at the point where I've now heard more than enough top builds, albeit all the DIY builds I've heard have been built by Soren Brix, who continues to be amazing.

Yet the question surely lingers for all of us: What sonic differences are there between the same amps made by different builders? To my knowledge, there is not a single 'published' direct comparison of an Eksonic T2 versus one by George, or Soren, or any other builder for that matter. The same goes for Carbon builds, Megatron builds etc.

I love my builder's amps, yet I have never heard another builder's amps, so what exactly is the point of such limited experience...? We estat lovers are doing all this writing online, without a crucial data point. My opinion is that without builder comparisons, we're living inside Plato's allegory of the cave.

So here's an invitation: If you're based in Europe, within driving distance to me, and you have DIY builds you're happy with, ping me and let's see whether we can meet up and compare build(er)s. I'm happy to take my Stax show on the road and learn from you, too :)
 
Aug 4, 2023 at 7:54 AM Post #19 of 80
@Aspirant Audiophile, I enjoyed our meeting a lot :) Unfortunately there was again not too much time. Thanks a lot for loaning me your Carbon, 007Mk1, Sigma and the Teac 701 DAC. Some more nice comparison "work" ahead :)
Btw., Mulvelling was writing about his experience with his Goerge Parris T2 in comparison with an earlier version of the new Kerry T2.
 
Aug 4, 2023 at 5:21 PM Post #20 of 80
A recent listening session with @Schelp san (T2, Carbon and Megatron, plus pretty much every non-Lambda Stax headphone from 007mki to x9000s, along with Sigma/404s) confirms for me the following:

--Megatron is indeed very close to T2. Much closer than price differences indicate. At first, I was relieved, because for the first 30 minutes of listening I felt no pressure to buy a T2. Budget saved! But after three hours of comparisons, I don't agree that they are equals in any way. True, for several tracks in a row, I barely heard a difference, or none at all. Only in specific cases did a recording really jump out as superior on T2...but then once I noticed the differences, I started and continued to notice T2's uber-powerful presentation of every single frigging note. Nothing else offers T2-level detail and oomph. If there is a way that Megatron is superior, it is in that I can listen to Megatron for 10 hours with zero fatigue. If I tried that on T2, I'd go into shock from endorphin OD, sell all the rest of my gear save one headphone, and probably abandon my family in order to live in domestic bliss with T2. So, score one for Megatron :)

Thank you for your impressions as well. Also, as much as I love the T2 and also believe it's the best I've heard, I would also agree with the important point that you are paying a premium. It's not twice as good as my old BHSE, and when I heard the Aeras (which I have in the same category as the BHSE, just very different in presentation), I truly had a moment where I wondered if I should contact Kerry and cancel the T2 lol. To your point, it's the combination of detail + improvement in bass impact and subbass that does give it a valuable edge.

But it's important to consider, as the other TOTL options out there are simply no slouches. I really hope to hear a Megatron one day, seems like it's a hell of an amp.
 
Aug 5, 2023 at 1:03 AM Post #21 of 80
@Aspirant Audiophile, I enjoyed our meeting a lot :) Unfortunately there was again not too much time. Thanks a lot for loaning me your Carbon, 007Mk1, Sigma and the Teac 701 DAC. Some more nice comparison "work" ahead :)
Btw., Mulvelling was writing about his experience with his Goerge Parris T2 in comparison with an earlier version of the new Kerry T2.
Ah yes, I forgot about Mulvelling's post...though that comparison between an OG and NG T2 kind of adds to my point, which is that an (in my opinion) important A/B comparison (i.e. amps that are ostensibly identical, yet cost different amounts in the many thousands of euros, simply based on builder reputation) has no (or, precious little) written discussion.

Thank you @Schelp san for your welcomeness and generosity. Your setup is amazing, and I'm lucky that you shared it for the evening. Your advice about amps and tubes has long been consistent, thoughtful and honest, as well as (I've found) accurate.

And...I VERY MUCH appreciate that you use the word "loan" :) :) :) I'm keen to read about your findings.
 
Aug 7, 2023 at 8:27 AM Post #22 of 80
Copied this from Stax Thread III (1604) upon request to this new thread.

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Kevin Gilmore Megatron and Kevin Gilmore Stax T2, both built by Soren Brix



Megatron

  • Build according to KG design
  • 450 V HV
  • Golden Reference HV and LV Power supply
  • Transformers: 400 VA + 2x 40 VA
  • Tubes:
1st Stage (12AU7/ECC82/(E80CC)): EH 12AU7

2nd Stage (12AX7/ECC83): ECC83 TELEFUNKEN Smooth Plates

Output (EL34): TESLA brown base (double O-getter)

CCS (EL34): Russian MULLARDS


T2
  • Build according to KG redesigned T2, no replacement semiconductors
  • 500 V KG power supply
  • RK50 attenuator
  • Tubes:
  • Input (6922): JAN PHILIPS (Sylvania)
  • Output (EL34): TESLA brown base (double O-getter)

Testing source

QOBUZ/TIDAL è SINGXER SU6 (DDC) è MUSETEC MH-DA005 (DA) è MT XLR out to T2

Cables (just for the record, no talent on my side to hear a noteworthy difference to previously used cheaper whatever cables…)

USB è DDC: AQ Coffee, I2S DDC è DA: AQ Carbon 48, XLR DA è MT: Inakustik NF-803, XLR Megatron è T2: ORB J10

Musetec runs with 2x Sabre 9038 pro, but is tuned to a warmer, less than for ESS typical forward/incisive signature. Matrix X-Sabre 3 with same 2x 9038 pro e.g. was a lot leaner and more incisive sounding. Overall sound signature I would describe as fairly neutral.

Music

Completely mixed, but I listened less to classical music.

Headphones

Stax SR307, 007A (2016, port + spring mod), 009, 009S, X9000


Sound

Treble
Extension and resolution seems similar on both, outstanding (maybe slight advantage for T2).
Treble on MT is more rounded and never causing fatigue, slightly subdued in comparison to T2. A completely grain free and sweet presentation.
T2 is presenting treble with more energy and dynamics, and most important, without harshness. Treble kicks in much stronger on T2 and more immediate, but appears not overdone in absolute terms.

Mids
Mids on MT appear to my ears as full, very liquid and “creamy” sounding. There is absolutely no shout to vocals (or anything), no matter how far the volume is cranked up.

On T2 the mids are tighter, less warm and big sounding, but maybe more articulated and focused. Probably many would say more neutral than MT, but I cannot say MT having colored mids in the reverse conclusion.

Bass
MT bass is precise, extends deep and delivers the fattest bass of all amps I listened to. T2 bass is most precise and extends deeper, bass is not as big and fat as MT. Bass impact is very prominent on MT (but not overdone), but is in comparison softer. T2 bass can hit you like a hammer, there is so much punch and rumble, if the music demands for it. MT is more polite in comparison. IMO the bass presentation of both suits all the a.m. headphones very well, and this alone sets both amps apart.

Overall

MT overall sound signature is relaxed and engaging at the same time, timbre is on the warm side. Both micro- and macrodynamics is great (be sure, all these EL34 are no statists). Already after plugging in MT for the first time, with the very first song it was clear to me that it is special in the way how harmonic its sounds. Tuning is on the softer side, very natural. There is not too much tube glare (unlike e.g. an unmodified SRM007t). The attribute coherency comes into mind, and that this is no one trick pony, more like experiencing one of the most “adult” sound of an amp I ever listened to, whether HP or speaker amp. Paired with great resolution all across the board, good transparency, delivering the most beautiful sound colours. Soundstage is very wide and deep, but exactly not like some overly exaggerated fuzzy tube amp staging one might have experienced. Next on the favorite list is how much body is given to the music, especially to the bass, resp. the lower frequencies in general. I guess this is not the kind of tuning one can generate by EQing other amps, this is organically implemented, and it suits the Staxes so well (even my 007A). MT is the perfect amp for (very) long listening sessions.


T2: Overall more (most!) energetic and more straight sounding. The analogy of an athlete, whose muscles are always tensioned comes to mind. This leads to a very lifelike (but not stressful) presentation, there seems to be not one millisecond delay from the record till it reaches the ear. Simply impressive!

T2 sounds a bit brighter/leaner than MT, having less of this “organic charm”, but there is even more transparency. Many might say T2 is more neutral. In comparison to the Carbon I experienced, T2 is less bright. I think there is enough warmth for most tastes and I think this makes a big difference. If some amps (also sources and transducers) suffer from either being highly dynamic but more lean sounding, while others from being warm but less dynamic, this is not the case with T2. I guess most would say T2 is where you want it to have. Compared to MT, stage on T2 is smaller, but probably more “correct” in size, with width and depth equally pronounced.

Mainly because of in comparison less treble energy of MT, listening at higher volume is possible and can be highly enjoyable. Both amps have excellent reverb, another ability which sets them apart from the other amps I could try before (speaking from memory though). Reverb on MT seems to be even more distinct than on T2.

T2 adds excitement already at low listening volumes. T2s most energetic presentation challenges you more, especially when cranking up the pot. You will not read a book while listening to music which is presented with this lifelike absolute authority.


Tube rolling

Megatron

Above mentioned tube configuration is based on the preceding words. Few other settings I tried:

1st stage
  • E80CC instead of 12AU7. (Possible if the PS can handle the filament current of 0,6 A instead of 0,3 A. Using this tube results in slightly more gain.)
  • I tried Valvo (Heerlen) and Tungsram E80CC. Both seem to be similar in sonics. This leads to a more engaging presentation, leaner and more treble sparkle compared to the EHs, but in the last time I feel it is maybe somehow not 100% “harmonic”. I would say its a preference thing. For now I switched back to EH 12AU7, because:
2nd stage
  • Coming from EH 12AX7 I switched to Telefunken ECC83 (Smooth plates), and this tube makes a difference. The Tele is adding resolution, treble extension, midrange presence and stage depth, tight bass. It is not a very tubey sounding tube I would say, but suits in this position very well, highly recommended. Together with a.m. E80CCs maybe too much of a good thing, bringing it to the lean side.
  • I tried also Valvo ECC83 MC2 45° (Hamburg), this adds some 3D stage, but overall a bit too sleepy for my taste here.
Output stage
  • Coming from Russian Mullards. They are overall pleasing in every regard, nothing to complain about. Recently I put in the Teslas, and they seem to be slightly more refined and clear sounding, a bit tighter in a good way. JJ EL34 II were no improvement (too lean). Overall there seems less influence compared to 1st and 2nd stage rolling, maybe no need to spend big money here. (Btw., GG was reacting much more on changing EL34)
  • CCS: The Mullards I never changed.
  • Receiving any experience from other MT owners would be very welcome.
(edit: Telefunken + Tungsram ECC82 and vintage Mullard ECC83 are on its way)

T2
  • No change of the input tubes so far (want to try Valvos)
  • Changed the output from Russian Mullards to the Teslas. Not very much difference, but the Teslas I liked better. Also here overall a bit clearer, tighter with better treble resolution, but not night and day.

Synergy with Headphones (preliminary)

This was respective still is not an easy (but most enjoyable!) task, personal preference as mood and music are playing a role and there are many combinations + influence of tube rolling. I think I can already say that none of the mentioned headphones sounds less than at least very good on both amps, there are no real sonic mismatches.

Megatron
  • X9000: Especially with this one I had my issues when getting it and I was not sure whether I would keep it. When MT arrived, I found missing synergy with X9000, so I forgot that idea. The full bodied character of MT with its thick mids was like it was made for X9000. Only area where I feel “only” good synergy, is in the treble. Both partners are having great resolution and extension, but are on the softer respective harmonic side.
  • 009/009S (I will not differentiate between these at this point): IMO the perfect match! Period. I doubt anybody would call 009 bright or edgy in this combination and you would be surprised at which volume fatigue free listening is possible.
  • 307: see 009, just wow. I would prefer 307 with MT over the round Staxes on certain “lesser” amps.
  • 007A: IMO also a good match and no, I do not find the bass region too congested. But indeed a combination where bass heads might lift an eyebrow. Btw., MT is able to drive also 007 to unhealthy volume levels, and everything remains so listenable.
  • (Once I could compare 007Mk1 (70xxx) and my 007A on MT and Carbon. 007MK1 I liked better on Carbon, but 007A (and all the other HPs) I preferred on MT.)

T2
  • X9000: Very good match, but different synergy than with MT. As T2 adds a bit less body and thick mids to the music than MT, presentation is of course also leaner (but luckily not lean in absolute terms). Where X9000 really profits is in the bass and treble. Compared to 009, X9000 bass bleeds a bit into the lower mids (my perception), but the control, punch and precision of T2 cures that for me in a noteworthy way. The treble of X9000 was originally an issue for me. While resolution could not be better, treble is on the soft side and I missed macro dynamics, excitement. T2 cured this, treble is simply outstanding now.
  • 009: Very very good match (at lower volume perfect). Two wild tigers are meeting, playing with their laser swords. All the qualities of T2 applied on 009 lead to a maximum exciting listening experience. For me the most impressive of all combinations at lower volume. Listening loudly for longer time can be too much of a good thing though. Right now I prefer 009S over 009 on T2, as it is slightly more “civil”, less challenging at higher volume.
  • 307: Very good match, highly energetic and exciting sounding. Reasonable volume without fatigue is possible. And while I rate a 009 or 009S (which share a good part of their tuning with 307) higher, it is again surprising how much also this one is scaling with amplification. Taking into account I paid 250 € new, this thing is a kind of small wonder.
  • 007A: You expect it, and yes, T2 fits to 007A perfectly. T2 transforms specially this one to a much more awake and precise transducer. Midrange recession is reduced, bass is juicy and accurate, the treble alive and just right. Having all the HP in front I ones was about to swap from 009 to 007, until I realized 007 was already on my head.

Overall thoughts:

I can easily agree with previous statements who called these two amplifiers outstanding, both are by far the ones I enjoy the most. Every headphone I tried sounds great in its own way with either amp, pairing is in the end as always a question of preference.

IMO T2 is not simply a better Megatron, as a Ferrari is no better Bentley. The full bodied and liquid tuning of MT is something very special and it suits probably the taste of many. On the other hand the energetic nature of T2 in combination with its balanced and lifelike sound is impossible to ignore and I´m sure will excite every listener.

Before T2 arrived here I thought at low volume listening most estat amplifiers do sound more similar to each other vs when cranked up, when more capable amps dominate due to lower distortion and all that. T2 somehow disproved this for me, I expect this alone might make some prefer T2 over MT.

I hope I could give a little bit of (preliminary) indication what to expect with these amps. Sorry for a not more polished language, and while reading it there are repititions…(never tried to describe sound in more than 2-3 lines before).
Btw, some might need to consider the WAF (wife acceptancy factor). I can say MT with its smaller one box solution is easier to “sell” for having it in the living room :wink:

Again, thank you Soren for providing these two excellent builts. Kevin, thank you for making these possible.
Can we have pictures if both?
 
Aug 7, 2023 at 11:18 AM Post #23 of 80
Some pictures:
 

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Oct 9, 2023 at 9:05 AM Post #25 of 80
Some update from my side. In the meantime I did some more tube rolling on both amplifiers, concentrating on the small signal tubes. It was a lot of fun to explore, especially when there was improvement. On the other hand one has to be prepared for getting blanks.

Megatron:

The Telefunken ECC83 smooth plates in the second stage, mentioned already in the initial post, were so far the biggest improvement. Clarity, dynamics and staging were improved noteworthy, compared to new production 12AU7 EH and E88CC Valvo MC1 45°.

So it was suggesting itself trying also the corresponding ECC82 Telefunken smooth plates for the first stage. And indeed, another improvement over the EH 12AU7 where I would use the same attributes for sound as with the Tele 83 (the 83 leads to more of this effect compared to the 82 though). Both Telefunkens tend a little to the leaner side, but Megatron has still enough warmth and “body” to offer (so change is not dramatic, it still sounds really rich). I say both tubes are really a must try if owning a Megatron. NOS ones are difficult to find and can be high priced, but for 150-200 you can find a used pair which measures well (at least in Europe).

After reading about the vintage Mullard ECC83, I got curious and finally could get a NOS pair from the 60s. The combination with the Tele ECC82 was a very good match in its own way. In the very beginning I thought it sounds very relaxed in comparison, but after some tracks I found it very pleasing. I noted a bigger bass, slightly less precise, but resolving treble and wonderful warm mids. The Mullards makes Megatron sound like THE classic good tube amplifier, I would say. Especially with 009 you can really sink into the music for hours. Bigger bass, relaxed, with still very good resolution and most important, not sounding boring. I you like the 009, but find it too bright, stressful or forward, a Megatron with Tele ECC82 and Mullard ECC83 might be for you.

Finally I tried the Tungsram ECC82, which can be found NOS for just 50-80 a pair. I say it is a very balanced and detailed sounding tube for Megatron, surely better than the EH12AU7.



T2

If you read my initial review of T2, I wrote about it being on the leaner side and my words described a less “musical” sounding (sorry for this word) compared to Megatron, with stage being noteworthy smaller. On the other side there was this enormous macro dynamics and energy.

I was in contact with I think four T2 owners about tubes and recommendations. Consense was more or less that the tube choice on T2 matters, but not too much. After some tube rolling, my experience differs a bit.

Searching for more organic warmth in the sound, Mulvelling recommended changing my 6922 JAN Philips, and this is my result:

#1: NOS Valvo E88CC (Heerlen, 1962)

  • Plus: Warmer, more organic
  • Minus: Less dynamic, bass less precise
  • The overall tonality I liked, but the decrease in dynamic, bass quality and euphony made it overall less exciting for me.
  • Considering the price, I cannot recommend these.
#2: NOS Tungsram E88CC (ca. 1970)

  • These were a little “hyped” here and there in different forums for sounding similar to Telefunken E88CC, just being cheaper. Without testing the Teles, the Tungsrams could not convince me.
  • Overall sound similar to a.m. Valvo, slightly more alive, but a bit bass shy and limited in dynamics. Again, excitement factor is lacking.
  • No recommendation

#3: NOS Tesla E88CC (32, yellow print, ca. mid. 60s)

  • Airy, lively and warm sound, better dynamic compared to Valvo and Tungsram
  • Good resolution and staging
  • In total not dramatically different in tonality compared to #1 and #2, but small differences make the difference here.
  • Recommendation, IMO good and affordable allround tube for T2

#4: NOS Reflektor 6n23p 74´SWGP, silver shield (Russian equivalent to 6922)

  • Most interesting tubes I experienced so far. Its stunning how much the sound signature of T2 can be changed by replacing the JAN Philips with these Reflektors.
  • Warm and overall smooth, but still exciting. Effortless and very refined sounding. They have the “flow”.
  • They offer a “unique feature”: With T2 these tubes lead to a soundstage which is bigger than Megatron presents and even more pinpoint than on KGGG (what I liked best about KGGG). The location of instruments, voices, - whatever - can easily be tracked. And best, it does not sound unrealistically, just more open. I did not expect 007 or 009 being able to present a stage like this, and X9000 with its naturally huge stage can feel like an aural Imax cinema. When swapping to any of the other tubes, this effect is gone, immediately noticed.
  • Clarity and resolution is very good.
  • Micro- and macrodynamic great, but less edgy and with less “raw force” compared to JAN Philips.
  • When I said that T2 with JAN Philips 6922 in combination with 009 can be a bit tiring at higher listening volume, than this is exactly not the case with these Reflektors plugged in.
  • However, the overall smooth sound character of the Reflektors in combination with 007 could be little too smooth overall for some. Though I enjoyed X9000 with these as I never did before.
  • => Recommended and my favorite, but depending on preference and chain maybe not first choice for everyone.


Bottom line:

If you are in for getting a Megatron or T2, I think the tube choice matters and is part of the game. Tubes can make “the difference”, especially as the amplifier can be tuned towards personal preference.

T2, equipped with either Tesla E88CC + Tesla EL34 or with Reflektor ´74 + Tesla EL34 is IMO really superior to Megatron, no matter which of the mentioned tubes are plugged in Megatron. With the tubes mentioned in the initial comparison, both amps have their own strength and character. With the new T2 tubes I do not see any aspect where Megatron would have the edge over T2. T2 just sounds like a better Megatron now.

Please do not hesitate to share your own experience here :)
 
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Oct 9, 2023 at 12:36 PM Post #26 of 80
Some update from my side. In the meantime I did some more tube rolling on both amplifiers, concentrating on the small signal tubes....

Please do not hesitate to share your own experience here :)
I love that @Schelp san 's posts always have the effect of a thunderclap :)

I have nothing like his level of experience but I can confirm the Telefunken smooth plates do make a difference on Megatron.
 
Oct 10, 2023 at 6:43 AM Post #27 of 80
I´m only trying to document my recent findings, as there seems not too much information available about tube rolling on these two amplifiers. Not sure if my way for T2 is most constructive/effective though. Maybe I just should have hunted a Siemens E88CCa or a similar regarded tube and call it a day. But I thought expensive/rare is no guarantee for the best result, especially as for some the effect seems to be not that big.
 
Oct 10, 2023 at 11:31 AM Post #28 of 80
Interesting findings!

When it comes to tube rolling sensitivity I think it's not just the T2 in my case, I also seem to have some kind of audiophile "mental block" when it comes to rolling 6922 types. With 12AX7, I feel very attuned to picking out sonic nuances of each variant & vintage. With 6922 they always seem to blend together more in my mind - and it's not just T2, I've had that happen to me with rolling these tubes in a Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phono stage and my VAC Master preamp.

The two 6922 types that stand out to me are:
1. An earlier 1960s Holland Philips E88CC "SQ" I got from Upscale before they ran out some years ago. This tube is clearly more lush & liquid than all the other Holland Herleen 7308 and 6DJ8 variants I've got, which all kind of mix into a slurry of "meh" in my mind. They're all kind of warm and relaxed. Good, but slightly boring.
2. Siemens E88CC - these are more clean, dynamic, and exciting sounding than the other 6922 tubes. A little brighter than the Hollands for sure. But they also cram a really sweet midrange in there, somehow.

I wasn't terribly impressed with Telefunken E88CC, Mazda French 7308 or Mullard 7308 & 6DJ8 when I heard them, though I need to give them another chance and more time. The Japanese Matsushita 7DJ8 are very good for the money, both don't really distinguish themselves from the rest, either. The 1980s Philips ECG sound like I would expect for that brand - more solid-state like, but not terrible.
 
Oct 10, 2023 at 6:01 PM Post #29 of 80
Interesting findings!

When it comes to tube rolling sensitivity I think it's not just the T2 in my case, I also seem to have some kind of audiophile "mental block" when it comes to rolling 6922 types. With 12AX7, I feel very attuned to picking out sonic nuances of each variant & vintage. With 6922 they always seem to blend together more in my mind - and it's not just T2, I've had that happen to me with rolling these tubes in a Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 phono stage and my VAC Master preamp.
The Valvos, Tungsrams and Tesla I tested on T2 are indeed close in general tonality, but JAN Philips and Reflektor I find really different. As you said earlier, the JAN Philips sound more solid state like (with brute dynamics, but not very "charming") and the Reflektors I find special, so special that I will get spare tubes from these :)
Changing the T2 from the JAN Philips to the Reflektors is a little bit like listening to a different amplifier.


The two 6922 types that stand out to me are:
1. An earlier 1960s Holland Philips E88CC "SQ" I got from Upscale before they ran out some years ago. This tube is clearly more lush & liquid than all the other Holland Herleen 7308 and 6DJ8 variants I've got, which all kind of mix into a slurry of "meh" in my mind. They're all kind of warm and relaxed. Good, but slightly boring.
2. Siemens E88CC - these are more clean, dynamic, and exciting sounding than the other 6922 tubes. A little brighter than the Hollands for sure. But they also cram a really sweet midrange in there, somehow.
The Holland Philips you mention could be exactly same to the Valvos I have here, just with different printing. Mine have the etched code Δ7LG (Heerlen 1962), and the Philips Miniwatt SQ can be found with exactly this code.
I did not yet get through all these Siemens E88CC versions, there are so many. Do you know from which year yours are?

Did you see this tube comparision? After reading this review one can still feel so moderate :)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/692...922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/
 
Oct 10, 2023 at 7:22 PM Post #30 of 80
Changing the T2 from the JAN Philips to the Reflektors is a little bit like listening to a different amplifier.
The Reflektors get a lot of raves - I really should try to find a set.
I did not yet get through all these Siemens E88CC versions, there are so many. Do you know from which year yours are?
Nothing too special, far from a CCA. Mine are 1970s production, and sometimes called "A frame", though the "A" is much less pronounced than on the Amperex / Holland 6DJ8 A-frames. It's really more like a short angle near the end of the getter support posts. They're easier to find than the more dear, earlier variants - haven't gone down that rabbit hole yet! They were one of the last "premium" tubes Upscale had before they ran out around 5 years ago.
 

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