[cmirza]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pez /img/forum/go_quote.gif That reverses the sound stage though.

I don't know where you came up with that. If you have any articles that could support this theory, I'd be very interested to see them. DubPimp summed it up well though. Wearing my FX33s like this has never made me feel like I was listening to my music 'upside down'.

 

[kite7]

There's such thing as upside down sound? Now that's awkward

 

[edubb11]

I would have to agree with the above posters. Unless the phone has multiple drivers on each side, and maybe if each driver passed a certain band of the overall phones frequency spectrum??? the sound output cannot be changed by turning them upside down, but if you switched them from left to right you would be hearing them "backwards" lol.

However, if you place a single-driver IEM in your ear upside down, the position at which it (the driver) sits in relation to it's normal position while wearing them as they were intended to be worn could quite possibly change, thus affecting the way you hear the sound output as it is entering the ear canal at a different angle, distance, etc. which could give some validity to pez's remarks.

I only make sense to myself BTW while I try to study for my engineering (communication systems) midterms

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Think about it this way. You're playing a game and there's a someone above you. If you have the IEM's on proper, then the sound will sound "centerish" refering to an "above you" sound. If they are upside down, it would make them sound as if they are below you. As for music, if something is coming from the right (say a guitar riff) and in front when worn proper, then when worn upside down, it will sound to the right still, but behind you instead of properly in front as intended.

Come-on guys, he's pulling our collective legs, he can't be serious

 

[kramer5150]

Back on topic...

My local CC store has a red pair and a black pair for $39. I talked to the customer service manager and he said if I print out the Amazon ad and bring it into the store they will price match

at $19.

I have no need for another IEM. But if enough of you want me to, I'll gladly take one for the team, pick up a red pair, and post some impressions.

 

[Jon118]

Everyone wants to see if there are any Kramer mods for it. You seriously need to see about taking a collection for these things, I'm sure people would contribute to see what mods you could come up with.

 

[cmirza]

I think everyone wants to hear Kramer's take on these and any mods he can come up with. And I think I'll try printing an Amazon listing for them and see if my CC will pricematch.

 

[pez]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmirza /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know where you came up with that. If you have any articles that could support this theory, I'd be very interested to see them. DubPimp summed it up well though. Wearing my FX33s like this has never made me feel like I was listening to my music 'upside down'.

In music it's a 2D soundstage in games it's 3. I'll explain more later school time .

 

[pez]

Basically in music, you hear sounds coming from either left, right, in front, or behind. Since you do not hear from above it doesn't seem as big of a difference especially if an album is produced off sound coming from only left and right. Try this some sound cards have a way to test speakers in a 3D way and a 2D way, so hook up your IEM's or headphones and try it. As on games everything has 3D sounds. Say for example, and airplane from above is dropping bombs and someone to your front right shooting. With them "upside down" the plane wouldn't sound neccassarily below you, but definitely different than intended and the person would sound behind you and to the right. I can notice this, but maybe some can't, I've been to an audiologist and he's told me that I have rather sensitive hearing, especially in Mid and Low Range frequencies.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Basically in music, you hear sounds coming from either left, right, in front, or behind. Since you do not hear from above it doesn't seem as big of a difference especially if an album is produced off sound coming from only left and right. Try this some sound cards have a way to test speakers in a 3D way and a 2D way, so hook up your IEM's or headphones and try it. As on games everything has 3D sounds. Say for example, and airplane from above is dropping bombs and someone to your front right shooting. With them "upside down" the plane wouldn't sound neccassarily below you, but definitely different than intended and the person would sound behind you and to the right. I can notice this, but maybe some can't, I've been to an audiologist and he's told me that I have rather sensitive hearing, especially in Mid and Low Range frequencies.

The psychoacoustics are tricky. If you listen through headphones and hear something that is neither on the right nor the left, placement of that sound will be different for different people - it is ruled by where the brain is expecting the sound to be coming from, the phase relationships of the different frequencies as they reach the ears, and the timing of the sound hitting one side in relation to the other side. If a game has a helicopter, it's your brain telling you it is above you, not the orientation of the earphones.

With music and earphones, some people hear the sound to the sides and behind their head, some hear it inside their head, some hear it above their head, and some hear it in front of them (although that is less common I am told).

For me it is often inside my head, but I find with some earphones that if I concentrate really hard, with my head tilted down 45 degrees, I can imagine the sound stage coming from in front of me at forehead level.

Last night I was listening to a recording my daughter did while playing her guitar. About 1AM I had to put down the earphones and ipod because someone had locked the cat in another room, and he wanted out. I spent 30 minutes looking for the cat, and couldn't find it. Today I heard him trying to get out again. Had to look in the garage, out the back door, checked the bathroom and closets, and after another 10 minutes there was no cat. Turns out the cat was on the recording! I was like wow!

 

[cmirza]

I wish I hadn't help steer this thread off topic. I'm much more interested in the FX66s than the effect of headphone orientation on psychoacoustics.

From what I've read, '3D Sound' effects are done through differences in timing (as HeadphoneAddict describes above) and not any method of telling a speaker to 'project this sound above or below' the subject. If anyone wants to continue this discussion, lets start a new thread for it, otherwise let's stay ontopic.

 

[DaGreatAzn]

How do these headphones compare with the Yuin PK3s that I recently ordered?

 

[pez]

Yeah, you have to test it out with a "soundstag-y" song, but yes back on topic, what do they sound like?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back on topic... My local CC store has a red pair and a black pair for $39. I talked to the customer service manager and he said if I print out the Amazon ad and bring it into the store they will price match at $19. I have no need for another IEM. But if enough of you want me to, I'll gladly take one for the team, pick up a red pair, and post some impressions.

Well, I want to know what you think about them. To get better sound from an earphone, I have to use ER6i with a www.PenguinAmp.com Caffeine bass boost amp, or use the Denon AH-C700 - both setups in the $130-150 price range.

They sound similar to the Beyer DT231 closed heaphones ($59 at full compass, sometimes $49 + shipping), but I can't say if they beat the JVC. However, the $45 iGrado will beat the aircushion, if beating them for the least amount of money is the object, but they wont isolate like the JVC. I haven't A-B vs Sennheiser PX100, but the PX100 I know are darker sounding than the JVC. I haven't opened up my Koss KSC75 yet, so I can't compare them either. I guess a JVC Air Cushion vs the above 3 headphones might be in order...

 

[mwallace573]

I just grabbed a pair of these today thanks to you guys. They are a definite improvement over the FX33. They seem to be a bit more detailed and balanced overall. They are also quite comfy. When I first started using them with the medium tips, which is the size I normally use for canalphones, I realized that there wasn't that much isolation, but the soundstage seemed to open up a good bit. It actually sounded like there were sounds coming from outside my ear. When I switched to small tips, I was able to get them further in my ear and the isolation improved dramatically and the soundstage recessed back into my head. I guess the soundstage was improved when the drivers were placed further from my ear, even though the distance change was very small.

Overall I'm quite pleased with them pre-burn in for the $35 that I spent on them. Might I also add they they look pretty spiffy. The red and black is killer on them.