[Mher6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with the point of the article, musical ignorance is at an all-time low! (And will probably sink lower.) There are so few people these days who appreciate classical music or even 20th century music that sounds like it's classical (neo-classical). That said, I'm not familiar with Joshua Bell but I can definitely notice when a virtuoso is around (even off a recording), and if I had been there, I would've stopped to listen for sure, even if it would've made me late for work. Truly talented musicians are rare in this world and they need more appreciation rather than the talentless hacks posing as "musicians" running around in pop-culture today.

Agreed. I skimmed the article and watched the videos (going to listen to the full audio file later when I have the time for it). He is quite the player, and I did recognize him but only because of the fact my violin teacher has spoken about him before (I've been playing violin for ~9 years). I think I might a few of his CDs O.o

 

[NightWoundsTime]

We had a discussion at the last little Florida mini-meet about how much frame of mind and emotional state count when listening to music. It doesn't matter how great the music is or how great your rig sounds if you're not ready to listen. My personal solution is that my portable rig is planted at low volume when I'm at home doing housework or just hanging around. With 30 gigs of MP3's I have plenty of choices available and I use it as background noise until something takes hold. Once that happens I head to the main rig and either listen to that exact music or something inspired by it. Rushing to an office job isn't going to put anyone in the mood for a solo violin recital. Unless they're the next American Psycho

.

The article is a little too breathless in describing Bell, his musical selections, and most of all his instrument. It takes years to hear the kind of nuances that make each instrument unique and develop a taste for the finer sounds. So Mr. Bell found it necessary to invest several million into his instrument, that's fine. But don't expect me to be in awe as a layman. If anything I'm going to count the aged look of the instrument as another evidence that this guy is simply a down on his luck musician of exceptional talent. Much like the one woman in the article, I would ponder on his presence there but I wouldn't form the audience.

As for the kids, they don't have the pressures of time and paranoia to deal with. That's why they're kids. The parent who was interviewed rushed her kid off because she was on a tight timeline for getting him where he needed to go, and get to work.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scompton /img/forum/go_quote.gif …office workers hurrying to get to work, I doubt if there are many big cities where people would stop.…

Not so. I live in Midtown Manhattan, near Times Square … and have also worked and of course walked all around the innards of Grand Central Station, as well as all the biggest/busiest subway stations. There are many musicians playing — most mediocre to awful — and a few good ones. I've often stopped to hear and enjoy the few really good ones.

As I said, and as Asr commented, my ears would hear playing of that caliber and I would be compelled to stop and listen. As you may have noted from my first post, I'm not a great fan of Mr. Bell and would not have known it was a Stradivarius (which doesn't even matter in that environment) — and yet unless I was on the way to a dire emergency (knowing myself) I would have been compelled to stop and appreciate his playing, regardless of who he was — considering the quality of the playing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that's the main reason why this experiment of the Washington Post didn't get much notice. Joshua Bell was out of context.

Context has nothing to do with why people pass by or stop. Workers dashing by would certain not have any reason to notice that it was Joshua Bell, and so the only factor is the quality of the playing and of the instrument's sound — and, of course, education/familiarity with and interest in the music to begin with.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Asr /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with the point of the article, musical ignorance is at an all-time low! (And will probably sink lower.) There are so few people these days who appreciate classical music or even 20th century music that sounds like it's classical (neo-classical). That said, I'm not familiar with Joshua Bell but I can definitely notice when a virtuoso is around (even off a recording), and if I had been there, I would've stopped to listen for sure, even if it would've made me late for work. Truly talented musicians are rare in this world and they need more appreciation rather than the talentless hacks posing as "musicians" running around in pop-culture today.

Amen.

 

[Inkmo]

:: sobs ::. state of modern music ain't totally lost

. Some folks just aren't in to music like we are - I don't think the article is attacking them per se, but raising the important 'is it relevant when no one notices' koan. I mean, how many people are really music lovers. Think of any connoisseur thing that you personally aren't into and think whether you'd notice it in a crowded subway. Like, let's pretend an oenophile forum was having this discussion about a famous taster in street clothes drinking... I don't know wine very well, but we'll assume the Orpheus of wines... in a subway. 'Just a drunk,' stressed commuters think. ZOMG, how could they not know? Nevermind... totally spurious argument. I wanted to say 'oenophile'. I am a linguaphile; what can I say?

I'm going to go and listen to that partita and see if I don't revise my opinion (I think I'm decently versed in orchestral and chamber stuff for someone who isn't actually studying music; though I know there's a lot I haven't heard yet) (personally I like modern stuff like Sibelius or else romantics like Korsakov or Tchaik... and my favorite Bach is Jesu and 3rd Orchestral Suite in D -- call me a philistine if you like : pshaw! : harumph!), but I think anyone that isn't specifically into music can be forgiven for not realizing there was a virtuoso in their midst in a crowded subway at 8 in the morning.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Context has nothing to do with why people pass by or stop. Workers dashing by would certain not have any reason to notice that it was Joshua Bell, and so the only factor is the quality of the playing and of the instrument's sound.

That seems like an extremely general and simplified statement. I've been through Washington rush hour traffic many times: Washington has a lot of pan handlers and Washington Post workers handing out newspapers to subway riders. You get very desensatized into running to try to get to your train, ignoring all panhandlers and solicitors. So there's that...you have some people who are late to work and wouldn't stop for anything....lastly you have the people who could care less about a good musician. I bet if the Washington Post also had Joshua Bell play at the mall, they would have gotten different results....don't you think?? Context: the mall has a lot of free concerts and events...people are conditioned into identifying that area as being a "happening" sort of spot. Subways and alleyways are places that you speed on by.

Personally.....I'm not a huge fan of Joshua Bell, so I wouldn't had stayed for his whole performance. Itzhak Perlman on the other hand!!!

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif No so. I live in Midtown Manhattan, near Times Square … and have also worked and of course walk all around the innard of Grand Central Station, as well as all the biggest/busiest subway stations. There are many musicians playing — most mediocre to awful — and a few good ones. I've often stopped to hear and enjoy the few really good ones. As I said, and as Asr commented, my ears would hear playing of that caliber and I would be compelled to stop and listen. As you may have noted from my first post, I'm not a great fan of Mr. Bell and would not have known it was a Stradivarius (which doesn't even matter in that environment) — and yet unless I was on the way to a dire emergency (knowing myself) I would have been compelled to stop and appreciate his playing, regardless of who he was — considering the quality of the playing. Context has nothing to do with why people pass by or stop. Workers dashing by would certain not have any reason to notice that it was Joshua Bell, and so the only factor is the quality of the playing and of the instrument's sound. Amen.

I should have said that not many people would stop. After all 6 people did stop in 45 minutes. I have stopped many times for street musicians. But there are also many times that I haven't stopped. Here in DC, we have some really good street musicians that I see a lot. I've rarely seen people stopped to listen. When I have, it's always been on the Mall or in Georgetown, or downtown on a beautiful day at lunch time. Typically, when I stop to listen, I'm the only one.

BTW, I'm listening to the audio now. If I heard this Bach being played, I'm pretty sure I would stop. It's fantastic. I'm sure the next CD I buy is going to be the partitas.

Back to what I was saying before, I've stopped for the following musicians here in DC, or elsewhere. Most however were not during morning or evening rush hour.

The guy playing the 1-stringed Chinese instrument - really while waiting for a bus

A great tenor sax player that I've probably seen 20-30 times. I've only stopped a few times.

A Stanley Jordan style guitar player. I haven't stopped lately because he started singing.

A group of Andean pan pipe players.

A bag pipe player in full Scottish get up.

A group of kids who play plastic buckets and pots. They are absolutely fantastic. They're the only ones I stop for every time I've seen them.

In Zurich, I heard a Bach organ piece being played and hunted around to find it. It ended up being a accordion player playing under an overhang of a building. He was just playing with no one around and without a case out for money. My wife and I stayed and listened for about 15 minutes, which is my wife's limit for standing without pain. This was one of the most incredible music experiences that I've ever had and I wish it could have lasted longer.

 

[Romanee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif That seems like an extremely general and simplified statement. I've been through Washington rush hour traffic many times: Washington has a lot of pan handlers and Washington Post workers handing out newspapers to subway riders. You get very desensatized into running to try to get to your train, ignoring all panhandlers and solicitors. So there's that...you have some people who are late to work and wouldn't stop for anything....lastly you have the people who could care less about a good musician. I bet if the Washington Post also had Joshua Bell play at the mall, they would have gotten different results....don't you think?? Context: the mall has a lot of free concerts and events...people are conditioned into identifying that area as being a "happening" sort of spot. Subways and alleyways are places that you speed on by. Personally.....I'm not a huge fan of Joshua Bell, so I wouldn't had stayed for his whole performance. Itzhak Perlman on the other hand!!!

Not really. Of course if his ID were announced he'd be mobbed — at least by those who know his name. The point was NOT to announce himself, but to play (ostensibly) beautiful violin music and see who'd respond.

We have tons of the same panhandlers and such in NYC — and besides the many errant buskers, we have a NYC government sanctioned (and maybe sponsored?) Music Under New York (MUNY) program (see quoted blurb below).

I totally understand the pressures upon, and the resulting hardened veneer of most metro commuters in their daily rush to work, and I have no criticism of them.

I'm only talking about those who do appreciate classical music and fine playing, particular interpretation aside. In noisy stations the fine points and niceties are lost and irrelevant. Even at my most rushed, if I hear music of that caliber (and Joshua Bell is a high-level violinist, our preferences or criticisms aside — and, like you, I already stated that I'm not one of his fans…) it will get my attention — and my ears won't care whether or not it's a famous fiddler. Of course, that's just me.

I agree with almost everything you say, and again have no criticism for all those commuters. It's just that it's sad there are so very very few who do have ears to hear. That's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYCMTA Arts For Transit Music Under New York Classical violinists, Cajun cellists, jazz ensembles, bluesmen, Latin guitarists, and opera and folk singers are just a few of the MUNY performers in the subway and train stations contributing to the musical culture of New York City. Since 1985, MTA Arts for Transit has managed the MUNY program presenting quality music to the commuting public. At present, more than 100 soloists and groups participate in MUNY providing over 150 weekly performances at 25 locations throughout the transit system.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm only talking about those who do appreciate classical music and fine playing, particular interpretation aside. In noisy stations the fine points and niceties are lost and irrelevant. Even at my most rush, if I hear music of that caliber (and Joshua Bell is a high-level violinist, our preferences or criticisms aside — and, like you, I already stated that I'm not one of his fans…) it will get my attention — and my ears won't care whether or not it's a famous fiddler.

x2. Just listen to the audio an the Washington Post web site. Even with all of the background noise, it's pretty incredible. I'm not a musician. I enjoy classical music but know nothing about it. I own 2 or 3 solo violin CDs out of 800 CDs. I'm pretty sure I would stop for this. I'm lucky though, I can get to work whenever I want. Kind of like Gene Weingarten talks about in his online chat.

 

[Inkmo]

I too would like to imagine I'd've stopped. You never know. In New York, I've seen one of the guys playing the ... what's it called... dangit. let's assume the name will continue to escape us. Anyways, though intrigued, I didn't stop. Pique my interests or not, I either have places to be, or I don't want to hang around in a subway to listen to music. At least not right where the trains are (this guy was on the platform).

dangit. Can't quite find a copy of it here at the school. Gonna take a couple of chances. There are some partita No.2s by Bach here, but they're for organ or piano. wuh? Found something on vinyl, but I won't be able to take it home till my new stylus comes in the mail.

 

[Davesrose]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with almost everything you say, and again have no criticism for all those commuters. It's just that it's said there are so very very few who do have ears to hear. That's all.

Well I guess it's just we just have a slightly different vision of whether it's half empty or full

There are less people who listen to classical music now, but there is some youngish people getting into classical. I say youngish because IMO, some like me were forced to study violin as a kid. I grew tired of it, so by college I stopped even listening to classical. Now I've started listening and appreciating it a whole lot more. For several years I've been playing classical guitar. I also find that a lot of people like to experiment with music: not listening to American Idol crap but seeking indie music....IMO, it's never a bad thing to fuse jazz with rock or symphonic with electronica.

Here in ATL, I was really blown away when I went to my first classical performance here. I saw 20 somethings in the audience!!!!

Even at college, if I went to a symphony performance, it would all be a sea of gray hair (it was a small college town that was mainly students).

I can't say I've ever had any instance where I've wanted to pause in the Washington subway. Something about that subway too that makes you feel like cattle

I'm not sure if I'd recognize Joshua Bell on the street: I've seen a few photos and interviews of him....some of his peices can be moving, others just plain bland (he's like Tiger Woods of classical performers IMO

). Something tells me I would just pause and then look at my watch and keep going. Hilary Hahn, though, I would have stoped for. She reminds me of Heifetz in her maturity. One time in NYC though, I did stop to listen to a guitarist who was really amazing: you could tell that he had studied classical and flamenco techniques. So those sorts of things are very unexpected, and it can be worth it to stop and smell the roses (or listen to a moving instrumentalist)

 

[Romanee]

Erhu

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inkmo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I too would like to imagine I'd've stopped. You never know. In New York, I've seen one of the guys playing the ... what's it called... dangit. let's assume the name will continue to escape us. Anyways, though intrigued, I didn't stop. Pique my interests or not, I either have places to be, or I don't want to hang around in a subway to listen to music. At least not right where the trains are (this guy was on the platform). dangit. Can't quite find a copy of it here at the school. Gonna take a couple of chances. There are some partita No.2s by Bach here, but they're for organ or piano. wuh? Found something on vinyl, but I won't be able to take it home till my new stylus comes in the mail.

I've never seen anyone playing inside the DC Metro. The acoustics are so bad it wouldn't be the best place to play, plus there isn't much room on the platforms. I imagine NY is even worse. The only time I've hung out on the platform, is if I'm meeting someone, or if the trains are so crowded I can't get on. I think I saw a steel drum player in on a platform in NY once. Every few minutes, it seemed, a train would come through the station and drowned out the music. Seem to me that its a horrible place to play. In DC, they're usually at the top of the escalators. In nicer weather, they'll set up on corners downtown, or in the numerous small parks.

 

[scompton]

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Originally Posted by Davesrose /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hilary Hahn, though, I would have stoped for.

Are you sure you wouldn't have stopped just to gaze at Hilary Hahn

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Romanee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Erhu

This is definitely what the guy in DC plays. It's pretty amazing what he can do with one string. I don't think it's music that a lot of people appreciate though.

 

[lmilhan]

That was a very interesting experiment, thanks for sharing. For some unexplained reason I nearly wept.