[Bunnyears]

By your reasoning, anyone who has the same teachers will end up playing in the same way. I think teaching is influential only to a point, and then everything that makes up an artist's life experience starts to kick in. If what you say is true, then Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach should have sounded just like his father Johann Sebastian who should have sounded just like his uncle Johann Cristoph, and just like his father Christian, etc. Teaching only goes so far, the rest comes from something in the individual. Millstein took master classes from Heifetz, and yet sounded very different. I think you put too much emphasis on the teachers and forget that what distinguishes great artists is how they have changed the idiom and altered what they have learned more than how well they have followed it and preserved it.

 

[bkelly]

Oistakh,

By the time I heard Heifetz as a young teenager I had heard for many years that he was the greatest violinist on earth and I think I was sort of let down by him. Overall I don't think that his playing is very exciting emotionally. Other than that I don't have any particular complaints about him. I just don't think he lived up to all of the praise I heard about him.

His fans feel very strongly about him and so I try not to comment that much about him since I know my views will not be accepted easily.

Also, at about that same time I first heard Heifetz I also was hearing Mehuhin for the firsttime. Menuhin really blew my mind. I had never heard anything like him at the time. Still haven't for that matter.

Then came Perlman and now Vengerov. Of the three of them nobobdy impressed me like Maxim. I just cannot get over the tone he gets from his instrument. He can also create more drama than almost any other musician I can think of. The second movement of his 1st Prokofiev Concerto is so violent that it seems unimaginable that it is accomplished with a violin. In fact, I don't see how the instrument survies that kind of playing. Then, that is followed by an absolutley serene 3rd movement in which Maxim plays as beautifully on his violin as anybody has played anything on any instrument in my opinion.

Hell, I better stop here. Just like a Heifetz fan I can get pretty carried away about Vengerov.

Anyhting else?

 

[bkelly]

Oistakh,

Actually I should have mentioned Issac Stern. When I was very young he was my favorite violinist. I saw him on TV several times and I must have lsitened to him play "Ave Maria" on our home stereo a thousand times. It is still one of my all-time favorite recordings.

After that I bought other records by him and thought that he had some good and some not so good. Oddly enough e few years ago I bought a collection of his best work and it really made for a lovely recording. How he places with all the other violinists I haven't a clue but I have always liked him. Nice tone, too.

I am a professional jazz musician and so the clasical stuff comes to me sort of second hand. I don't really have that many friends that are classical music buffs and so most of what I listen and care about just comes from the little exposure I do get to classical music on NPR. If I hear something I like I just go out and buy it. For that reason I am not at all wise to the history of classical music. Hopefully you can bear with me on those things.

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, at about that same time I first heard Heifetz I also was hearing Mehuhin for the firsttime. Menuhin really blew my mind. I had never heard anything like him at the time. Still haven't for that matter.

which pieces played by Menuhin are you talking about? And what do you think of Nathan Milstein?

 

[bkelly]

I don't remeber exactly what the first pieces I heard Menuhin play were since my first exposure to him was from seeing him on television. At the time I knew very little about the repetoire for classical violin and so I would not have recognized anyhting just from hearing it. I was probably only ten at the time but I was alrady nuts on the subject of music and was just obsessed with it. Other than that the recording of his that I am most familiar with is the Mendessohn Concerto which my mother owned and I lstened to. She had others of hsi but I diont remeer them especially well..

My fascination with him ended as soon as I heard the recording he did with Ravi Shankar. I liked both of them prior to hearing that record but after I heard it I only liked Ravi Shankar. I thought Menuhin sounded ridiculous on that recording.

From what I have heard of him Milstein is wonderful. As I said earlier I love Milstein, Francescatti and Szerning. After hearing them I was sad to realize that I spent most of my life almost totally unaware of any them.

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif From what I have heard of him Milstein is wonderful. As I said earlier I love Milstein, Francescatti and Szerning. After hearing them I was sad to realize that I spent most of my life almost totally unaware of any them.

Are their tones worse than vengerov just like you said for oistrakh? Are they better than vengerov, or worse?

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif My fascination with him ended as soon as I heard the recording he did with Ravi Shankar. I liked both of them prior to hearing that record but after I heard it I only liked Ravi Shankar. I thought Menuhin sounded ridiculous on that recording.

well, duh! Its a western violin trying to play Indian Music!

 

[Spetsnaz Op]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oistrakh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Post your views on each of the performers (Joshua Bell, Itzhak Perlman, Jascha Heifetz) and David Oistrakh and state which one you like best) Joshua Bell-plays too cheesily, I don't like the way he "dances" when playing, and I don't like his vibrate Itzhak Perlman-Great violinist, great technique, great tone, all around awesome! Jascha Heifetz- Astounding technique, never plays anything out of tune, I feel like he rushes a lot through pieces, not putting enough "love" as Isaac Stern would say. My favorite is Itzhak Perlman, his technique is brilliant, and is extremely musical.

i just saw Joshua Bell in pittsburgh, it seemed a bit dramatized but it was pleasant

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif From what I have heard of him Milstein is wonderful. As I said earlier I love Milstein, Francescatti and Szerning. After hearing them I was sad to realize that I spent most of my life almost totally unaware of any them.

Since I find it weird you directly compare Oistrakh to Vengerov, but you don't compare Milstein, Francescatti and Szeryng to Vengerov... So do you think Vengerov is still better than them?

 

[bkelly]

Oistakh,

I don't know why you think it is weird that I compare Vengerov to Oistrakh since I have heard other knowledgeable crtics and reviewrs compare them.

Vengerov is probably my all time favorite musician next to John Coltrane. I like many others but I think Vengerov is really in a class by himself. I like the other players I mentioned but I don't think their work is nearly as significant or earthshattering as Vengerov. What I like about all of them is each has their own unique musical voice.

I know not eveyone shares my enthuisiam for Vengerov but that doesn't change anything for me. The first time I heard him I was like a religous experience for me.

It is clear to me that Vengerov is doing things with the violin that I have never heard anyone else do. Since I have a lengthy background in recording I early on attributed part of the sound he gets to some sort of clelver mic-ing technique but when I saw him perform live on DVD I realized that is was all done by Vengerov. How he gets that tone I have no idea but to me it is magical and absoutely perfect. I've heard him on two different instrumetns and no matter which one he is playing he still gets tht same tone.

Anyhow, those are my latest thoughts. It's been a long day and evening so I am off to bed.

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oistakh, I don't know why you think it is weird that I compare Vengerov to Oistrakh since I have heard other knowledgeable crtics and reviewrs compare them.

then how does milstein, francescatti, and szeryng compare to vengerov?

 

[bkelly]

Oistakh,

Well, I wouldn't want to minimize the contributions and merit of any of these players and it is almsot silly to compare them but if I were to tell the truth I truly beleive that Vengerov is the best, and most important violinist of all time. I say that with some reservations because so many of the great violinists are simply beyond compare and because Vengerov is still very young and as Bunnyears pointed out he may not be suited for every kind of material.

Other than that I feel silly going saying this over, over since I truly hope you enjoy your favorite violinist as much as I enjoy Vengerov.

 

[Oistrakh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkelly /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oistakh, By the time I heard Heifetz as a young teenager I had heard for many years that he was the greatest violinist on earth and I think I was sort of let down by him. Overall I don't think that his playing is very exciting emotionally. Other than that I don't have any particular complaints about him. I just don't think he lived up to all of the praise I heard about him.

Please listen to Heifetz's Scottish Fantasy. Tell me if you can find a Bruch Scottish Fantasy played with more emotion than Heifetz, I doubt it...

 

[bkelly]

Oistrakh,

I would be thrilled to listen to somethng you feel is excepotional and I am sure that I ahve never heard this recording. Can you recomeend a particular recording?

 

[bkelly]

Oistrakh,

I purchased the Heifetz CD with the Sottish fantasy jsut as you recommended. I was wrong when I stated that I hadn't heard this recording before because after hearing it I realized that I have heard it several times. I like it well enough and think that that is just about as good as I have ever heard Heifetz play. I don't know much about this piece so I can't even begin to say where this recording might rank but I am sure it is one of the very best and maybe the all-time most important recording of this work.

It is funny that you should choose this recording while we are discussing the merits of Maxim Vengerov versus all others because it also includes the Bruch Violin Concerto which as far as I am concerned Maxim put away for the foreseeable future. Vengerov's reading of this piece makes it sound like it has never truly been played or really understood before. The third movement as palyed by Vengerov sounds as if it was written for him (as does the whole peice for that matter) but I can't imagine anyone coming close playing that third movment as well as Vengerov has.

Vengerov has another skill that others have commented on almost as much as I have and it's a skill that is truly in play on this recording. Somehow Vengerov has devoloped the incredible ability to see a musical work as a complete and whole package and from his very first note he is assembling all of the pieces, in just the right order, at just the right time, so that by the end he has amde the whole and completely understood. Many people have commented that he has made pieces that they had previously disliked loveable. For example, even though I have always liked them I thought that the Shostakovich Violin Concerto always seemed peiced together from an assortment of disjointed musical ideas but in Vengerov's hands it lays out like poetry.