[SleepyOne]

Not breaking in two but just some damage to some of the element internally.

 

[anetode]

Wires don't tend to fall apart from the inside out. They kink, rip, oxidize, but that's about all I can think of.

 

[SleepyOne]

I have one interconnect that ends up with lots of kinks which over time couldn't be a good thing - I got a replacement in the end luckily. And also a speaker cable with banana plugs with elements snapped due to metal fatique. Due to this I am a little nervous re: cable & metal fatique...

Re: cyro & sound, given the low cost of cyro treatment, makers could just cyro rolls of cables at once making the cost of cyro pennies per meter! Thus making the arguement of cyro or not irrelevant providing of course if noone over charged....

 

[anetode]

Kinks are not a good thing, but if the interconnect still works, then why replace it? The difference between cryo treated copper and regular in terms of metal fatigue is negligible. If you want a sturdier cable, go with a larger gauge.

Anyway, I get that you're trying to rationalize the large sums of money you've already paid for cables, so I don't think that a productive discussion is realistic. There's a fundamental leap of faith to cable exuberance that is compromised by current scientific understanding and once you read non-audiophile publications you'll find out that they're just strings of metal

 

[mrarroyo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pars /img/forum/go_quote.gif A differing point of view is oftentimes valuable and much needed. ...

Correct, but if I disagree with your position. Shouldn't I explain why? Specially if you posted some other source of information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely understandable however, it'd be nice if he offered constructive examples of his own, rather than just defaming the information or help offered by others. It's rather unusual to come across such a hostile manufacturer here on Head-Fi.

That is the point I was trying to make, obviously I was not eloquent enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Empty claims aren't "information." Empty claims do not inform. k

Rest my case.

 

[SleepyOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by anetode /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kinks are not a good thing, but if the interconnect still works, then why replace it? The difference between cryo treated copper and regular in terms of metal fatigue is negligible. If you want a sturdier cable, go with a larger gauge. Anyway, I get that you're trying to rationalize the large sums of money you've already paid for cables, so I don't think that a productive discussion is realistic. There's a fundamental leap of faith to cable exuberance that is compromised by current scientific understanding and once you read non-audiophile publications you'll find out that they're just strings of metal

I can get a replacement cable because it was under warranty. And both cables are large gauge already.

I thought this is about whether to cyro or not, rather than an arguemnet about sound difference in cables or whether it is worth it or not. If you do not believe cables make any difference that is your business, but for me they do*. However, this does not mean I am happy about manufacturers over charging either, please do not assume.

*After trying different cables over the years. As for question of cost/performance, that is a different issue and something very subjective, i.e. one person could say a cable is good value while another person say it is not. However, whichever way, equiments are still the most important of course.

 

[greenhorn]

OK, it is agreed that cryo is good for improving MECHANICAL characteristics of metal (irrelevant for audio cables )... as for and AUDIO improvement induced by cryo, well, that's another issue.

However, some wire producers (and then some cable manufacturers using those wires) are throwing this cryo thing to the customer in unequivocal terms, like if it was a very expensive technology (not the case) allowing their cables to "perform" soooooo much better.

An example:

"Here is what Jena Labs themselves has to say about the technical characteristics of this extraordinary wire:

“We start with exceptionally pure copper. Each ULTRA-WIRE strand is ultra high purity, linear crystal, stress-free, super annealed, micro-polished, ultra fine stranded copper. It is jacketed in a modified PE dielectric which offers dissipation and dielectric constant figures similar to TeflonTM, but without its mechanical stiffness and resonance problems. A special extrusion process allows the insulation to exert a high inward radial force on the wire strands, thus reducing audio smearing micro-vibration.

ULTRA-WIRE is Immersion CRYO treated by our own proprietary process in our own 'in house' Cryo lab. The Deep Immersion Cryogenic treatment entails a cold chilling process culminating in immersion of the cables or electronics parts in Liquid Nitrogen. Exposing metallic objects to this extreme cold causes beneficial molecular changes to occur. As metallic objects cool, they shrink. With the extreme cooling and the shrinkage that follows in super chilled LN2 immersion, the crystal boundaries of metallic conductors align more closely with one another and become more conductive and ‘quieter’. Mechanical integrity is also improved. The improved molecular condition stays intact through the slow warming process and is stable at room temperature. When conducting an electric signal, treated wire will produce less micro-diode-effect noise, less impurity inclusion field disturbance and less transverse energy wave noise generation.” "

Yes, sure.

 

[majkel]

All the matter is to convince people that an audible change is for the better, not for the worse. Cryogenic treatment of metals being in room temperature still far away from their melting point might be only a temperature shock applied to the conductor, and all you can obtain is alter the crystallic connections to more "flexible" ones due to microdefects. Why does glass break when cooled fast? Just due to the same phenomenon of quick thermal shrinking. So, due to mircodefects the same cable might change the sonic signature but prove it's improvement.

I heard one aftermarket cable and compared stock 'phones to these side by side over several days and I realized that the sonic signature of the aftermarket cable arised from cutting out the lightest detail and nuance level, making sound more obvious, "resolving" and "focused" but actually simplified and shallow. All of that for extra money. LOL. This cable could improve crappy Denon AH-D1001 one but not the Grado UHPLC old or new style especially.

 

[RickEC]

.

 

[scootermafia]

Cryo may not cost much to have a big company treat a blade, but smaller places doing their own cryo have to pay for the chamber and LN2 somehow.

I don't have any trouble believing the possibility that cryo can improve sound. If it can strengthen metal, there is a serious possibility that it can make copper transmit a little zippier. I can't guarantee that, but it's a little different than just sprinkling fairy dust on the cable. It is doing something to the metal.

Cryoparts TWCu wire sounds preternaturally good. I wonder why?

 

[Covenant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cryoparts TWCu wire sounds preternaturally good. I wonder why?

To be honest, I think that has more to do with the Ohno Continuous Casting process than the cryo-treatment.

 

[skyline889]

Quote:

Originally Posted by scootermafia /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cryo may not cost much to have a big company treat a blade, but smaller places doing their own cryo have to pay for the chamber and LN2 somehow. I don't have any trouble believing the possibility that cryo can improve sound. If it can strengthen metal, there is a serious possibility that it can make copper transmit a little zippier. I can't guarantee that, but it's a little different than just sprinkling fairy dust on the cable. It is doing something to the metal. Cryoparts TWCu wire sounds preternaturally good. I wonder why?

I have no preference for or against Cryo treatment (I buy wire based on how good it sounds to me not based on specs alone) but I don't think Cryo retailers can really offer a third party, unbiased opinion of the treatment's effects (Especially not to someone as adamant as Greenhorn

).

 

[greenhorn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have no preference for or against Cryo treatment (I buy wire based on how good it sounds to me not based on specs alone) but I don't think Cryo retailers can really offer a third party, unbiased opinion of the treatment's effects (Especially not to someone as adamant as Greenhorn ).

When I was young, I've been cryo-treated in the cold-as-ice Styx electrostatic river and no biased opinion can pierce my shield anymore.

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covenant /img/forum/go_quote.gif To be honest, I think that has more to do with the Ohno Continuous Casting process than the cryo-treatment.

Whether cryo treatment or the Ohno continuous casting process, what possible effect could either possibly have on the wire with regard to its electrical properties save for the wire's resistance?

So let's say that between cryo treatment and the Ohno continuous casting, you end up with a wire with slightly less resistance.

What could possibly distinguish that wire from a slightly larger, non-cryo treated, regular continuous cast wire?

k

 

[jojo_b2]

Sorry to cut in guys....

But can the OP change the title of the thread. I opened it trying to get information on Jena cables on HD800.

I believe better to rename the thread to something related to "Cryo ..." as there are now two pages on the topic.