nor_spoon
Headphoneus Supremus
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Lol, can't go wrong. When I see it says HD800 in the title, I know there's trouble inside...
Jena Labs cable for Sennheiser HD800
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Steve Eddy
Member of the Trade: The Audio Guild
Aka: TempAccount555
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Quote:
k
| Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lol, can't go wrong. When I see it says HD800 in the title, I know there's trouble inside... |
k
mrarroyo
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
I offered information, for someone to start their education into a given process and hopefully the incentive for them to do their own search and thus make an informed decision. So far all you have done is attack and try to sell your own agenda, so shut up or contribute to the search for information.
| Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What I have to offer is pointing out that empty claims have absolutely nothing to offer. And since the links you provided have nothing but empty claims with regard to cryogenics and audio, I guess the question goes back to you. What do you have to offer? k |
I offered information, for someone to start their education into a given process and hopefully the incentive for them to do their own search and thus make an informed decision. So far all you have done is attack and try to sell your own agenda, so shut up or contribute to the search for information.
skyline889
Headphoneus Supremus
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Quote:
This is what he does in nearly every thread I've seen him in. His natural tendency seems to lean towards putting down anyone with a differing point of view.
| Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I offered information, for someone to start their education into a given process and hopefully the incentive for them to do their own search and thus make an informed decision. So far all you have done is attack and try to sell your own agenda, so shut up or contribute to the search for information. |
This is what he does in nearly every thread I've seen him in. His natural tendency seems to lean towards putting down anyone with a differing point of view.
Pars
Can Jam '10 Organizer
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A differing point of view is oftentimes valuable and much needed. Pointing out that the topic of cryo is unsubstantiated and controversial is hardly inflammatory, and from my point of view constitutes participating in the discussion in an appropriate manner if you disagree with something.
| Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, if you like reading a bunch of unsubstantiated claims. k |
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| Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Besides criticizing and attacking what do you have to offer? If nothing go back under the rock you crawled out of. 
|
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| Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is what he does in nearly every thread I've seen him in. His natural tendency seems to lean towards putting down anyone with a differing point of view. |
A differing point of view is oftentimes valuable and much needed. Pointing out that the topic of cryo is unsubstantiated and controversial is hardly inflammatory, and from my point of view constitutes participating in the discussion in an appropriate manner if you disagree with something.
skyline889
Headphoneus Supremus
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Completely understandable however, it'd be nice if he offered constructive examples of his own, rather than just defaming the information or help offered by others. It's rather unusual to come across such a hostile manufacturer here on Head-Fi.
| Originally Posted by Pars /img/forum/go_quote.gif A differing point of view is oftentimes valuable and much needed. Pointing out that the topic of cryo is unsubstantiated and controversial is hardly inflammatory, and from my point of view constitutes participating in the discussion in an appropriate manner if you disagree with something. |
Completely understandable however, it'd be nice if he offered constructive examples of his own, rather than just defaming the information or help offered by others. It's rather unusual to come across such a hostile manufacturer here on Head-Fi.
Steve Eddy
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Quote:
Empty claims aren't "information." Empty claims do not inform.
k
| Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I offered information... |
Empty claims aren't "information." Empty claims do not inform.
k
Steve Eddy
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Why do you consider someone who simply has a different opinion or point of view as "hostile"?
That's how cults work. Not how intelligent, open-minded people engage in discussion or even debate.
And by the way, pointing out that the references given with regard to cryogenics and audio are full of empty claims is constructive. Unless you are arguing that swallowing such empty claims is "constructive."
k
| Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely understandable however, it'd be nice if he offered constructive examples of his own, rather than just defaming the information or help offered by others. It's rather unusual to come across such a hostile manufacturer here on Head-Fi. |
Why do you consider someone who simply has a different opinion or point of view as "hostile"?
That's how cults work. Not how intelligent, open-minded people engage in discussion or even debate.
And by the way, pointing out that the references given with regard to cryogenics and audio are full of empty claims is constructive. Unless you are arguing that swallowing such empty claims is "constructive."
k
sochee
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Can you guys seriously calm down? Christ.
By the way, OP, thank you for linking that thread. I just spent 2 hours reading all of it, front to back. Truly the most entertaining evening I have had in a while!
By the way, OP, thank you for linking that thread. I just spent 2 hours reading all of it, front to back. Truly the most entertaining evening I have had in a while!
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Problem is that for a given metal at a given temperature you can only do so much to increase its conductivity in the real world. The measurable difference between oxygen free and tough pitch copper is minuscule, the differences between cryo-treated copper and regular copper, at room temp, are hypothetical, or at least small enough not to yield a consistent change in measurement. If you can cite a properly conducted study published in a peer-reviewed journal (there are dozens publications in almost every field of science), then at least there's a starting point of real world test results. Finally, think about it, if the results from cryogenic treatment yielded significant gains, then why would companies like Belden not implement them in order to gain a competitive advantage?
SleepyOne
Headphoneus Supremus
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I can't say much about benefit of cyro in term of sound as I haven't tried A-B comparing between cyro & non-cyro treated of the same cable, however anything that helps toughen cable is a good thing in my view.
markl
Hangin' with the monkeys.
Member of the Trade: Lawton Audio
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Just so there is no confusion, neither Lawton Audio nor anyone associated with/employed by us past or present had anything to do whatsoever with the infamous botched R10 re-cable. Period.
Uncle Erik
Uncle Exotic
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Quote:
Sure, if you're going to use the cable to hold up a suspension bride or tow a trailer. Cryo does help an edged tool retain its edge over a long period of use.
But I don't see how that can possibly translate to an improvement in audio.
The problem with a lot of the cable/tweak stuff is that they take a legitimate scientific principle, apply it to the cable/tweak, and then claim a huge improvement.
The problem is that there is no causal link between the two. Or at least it isn't demonstrated.
To put it in a different context, it is 74 degrees out at the moment and I'm feeling hungry.
Both of those could be verified a number of ways. But you cannot say that the two are related.
Same with this. You can show cryo to toughen tools, but you cannot draw a causal link between that and an "improvement" in audio. It just isn't there. Or if it is, no one has demonstrated it yet.
Keep in mind that scam artists like to conflate facts in this way to give themselves an air of legitimacy. If someone is throwing around a lot of science without demonstrating how it applies to something then asking you for a lot of money, that's usually a scam. You'll see the same thing happen with quack medicine.
| Originally Posted by SleepyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't say much about benefit of cyro in term of sound as I haven't tried A-B comparing between cyro & non-cyro treated of the same cable, however anything that helps toughen cable is a good thing in my view. |
Sure, if you're going to use the cable to hold up a suspension bride or tow a trailer. Cryo does help an edged tool retain its edge over a long period of use.
But I don't see how that can possibly translate to an improvement in audio.
The problem with a lot of the cable/tweak stuff is that they take a legitimate scientific principle, apply it to the cable/tweak, and then claim a huge improvement.
The problem is that there is no causal link between the two. Or at least it isn't demonstrated.
To put it in a different context, it is 74 degrees out at the moment and I'm feeling hungry.
Both of those could be verified a number of ways. But you cannot say that the two are related.
Same with this. You can show cryo to toughen tools, but you cannot draw a causal link between that and an "improvement" in audio. It just isn't there. Or if it is, no one has demonstrated it yet.
Keep in mind that scam artists like to conflate facts in this way to give themselves an air of legitimacy. If someone is throwing around a lot of science without demonstrating how it applies to something then asking you for a lot of money, that's usually a scam. You'll see the same thing happen with quack medicine.
SleepyOne
Headphoneus Supremus
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Perhaps you haven't heard of metal fatigue? Wires do get damage over time from bending back and forth when you swap wire or roll it up etc. For me anything that helps prolong the life of cable is a good thing providing of course the companies don't charge you an arm or a leg; from past HF comments cyro treatment isn't even that expensive a process.
As for sound benefit, I have no idea, until I see proper scientific prove one way or the other I'd rather reserved judgement. At the very minimum, I would prefer to heard 2 of the same cable, one with cyro treatment and one without and see whether there is really any 'differences' at all - note the word 'differences' as oppose to 'better'. The question of 'better' is much more subjective and thus could be arguable and inconclusive.
As for sound benefit, I have no idea, until I see proper scientific prove one way or the other I'd rather reserved judgement. At the very minimum, I would prefer to heard 2 of the same cable, one with cyro treatment and one without and see whether there is really any 'differences' at all - note the word 'differences' as oppose to 'better'. The question of 'better' is much more subjective and thus could be arguable and inconclusive.
Quote:
Of course cryo isn't expensive - people like those behind Jena Labs make it look expensive
... as well as certain cable manufacturers which use cryo treated wires (Jena Labs or other) and are marketing them as being the best thing ever in audio industry (and this NOT for their improved mechanical characteristics, but for their pretended improved audio characteristics!).
And, speaking about improving mechanical characteristics of an audio cable... have you seen many audio cables breaking in two because of fatigue and/or normal use?
| Originally Posted by SleepyOne /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps you haven't heard of metal fatigue? Wires do get damage over time from bending back and forth when you swap wire or roll it up etc. For me anything that helps prolong the life of cable is a good thing providing of course the companies don't charge you an arm or a leg; from past HF comments cyro treatment isn't even that expensive a process. |
Of course cryo isn't expensive - people like those behind Jena Labs make it look expensive
... as well as certain cable manufacturers which use cryo treated wires (Jena Labs or other) and are marketing them as being the best thing ever in audio industry (and this NOT for their improved mechanical characteristics, but for their pretended improved audio characteristics!).
And, speaking about improving mechanical characteristics of an audio cable... have you seen many audio cables breaking in two because of fatigue and/or normal use?
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