[krmathis]

I bet $5 that this is "our" guy.
Same username and both with location Boston, MA. Hardly a coincidence...
Happy Monkey - AznLover AM/WF Photo Sharing Community

 

[FYDave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quite true. FYDave, this would be the equivalent to you and me agreeing to trade your car for my car and you giving me a pristine, well cared for vehicle while I give you a beat up late model with cracks in all the windows. You didn't ask so I didn't tell and I wouldn't see what the problem with that would be based on the fact that the car will still drive from Point A to Point B. TheMarchingMule: I'm sorry to see this deal go as far downhill as it has. I would say that I hope the issue could be resolved, but looking at the previous 20 pages, looks like that isn't going to happen....

1. I'm not psychic. I'm not aware how much or how little someone is going to be anally retentive over the cosmetic condition of used goods.

2. To be perfectly honest, of course many of you will simply shoot this second point down as me lying, I DON'T THINK THEY ARE IN THE SHAPE THEY MAKE THEM OUT TO BE. They're not broken. They don't function improperly. They have cosmetic imperfections.

3. If he is THAT concerned over cosmetic appearances, would inquiring about the condition not be the logical, intelligent, and RATIONAL thing to do?

 

[Baines93]

Stop making out you are the victim using the same stale arguments. Oh boo hoo, we feel bad because we are the reason Mule isn't getting his W3's back... Actually scratch that, we don't, because I know for a fact that you wouldn't have reversed the trade even if this thread didn't exist. You can't use that as an excuse, you're just playing with our minds, a common trait of SCAMMERS.

What we have said in trying to get you to do what is right shouldn't affect whether you sort this or not. You're just punishing Mule, and to be honest, that was always your intention clearly, to scam and lie to get to here.

To quote blue, I can't wait until you are banned you peniswrinkle scum of the earth.

I'm more mature than you, have more ethics and more undertstanding of how to treat people, conduct business, and be a good citizen, and I am 16. You should be ashamed you ******.

And also, itsry/fydave, you clearly haven't been here long enough... It would have been the common thing to do to explain that while his W3's were mint, the Shures actually weren't even if the other guy didn't ask... It's ethical, and called having a conciencse! When you don't explain the condition, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.

 

[SpudHarris]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FYDave /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why would I reverse a trade if I traded for an item I wanted in the first place? Also, please do note that I wasn't the one who initiated the trade. Mule approached me about this. Aside from that, am I Wal-Mart? Do I have an explicitly stated return policy? I have never claimed to have a return policy ever.

Nah you don't want to give them back because what you have now is a shed load better than the crap you gave Mule....Probably one reason you didn't send your package immediately cause if Mule had seen them beforehand you certainly wouldn't be sitting pretty now with a nice set of W3's would you?

Why don't you just leave now we're bored of your lame excuses, you got what you wanted. You're not part of this community because we don't treat people like you do. Said it before and I'll say it one more time for good measure - You are Scum.

Oh and I'm getting p*%sed off with people giving this guy the benefit of the doubt and how we shouldn't be ganging up on him etc....... Well BOO HOO!!Get a grip guys, what are you on? I'm amazed that members of the same community would stick up for someone who has done what he's done.

 

[linuxworks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FYDave /img/forum/go_quote.gif 3. If he is THAT concerned over cosmetic appearances, would inquiring about the condition not be the logical, intelligent, and RATIONAL thing to do?

he is at fault for not asking. YOU are at fault for not disclosing or taking good photos.

its communication issues that started it.

HOWEVER, how you handle this, dave, has taken on a life of its own. its no longer about the cosmetic flaws (yes, they are small, to be honest). its about acting like a MENSCH (look it up).

 

[Billyk]

Must not post.... Must stay away.... Aw hell.... here goes

Quote:

If he is THAT concerned over cosmetic appearances, would inquiring about the condition not be the logical, intelligent, and RATIONAL thing to do?

That's just the point everyone has been trying to make you incredible, frimping, MORON!
The attitude of trust and community here at Head-Fi is such that we should not have to ask! We know that any one of OUR community would not hesitate to do whatever they could to make the deal right.

Now I am mad!
Good-Bye

 

[ItsRy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I were the one involved in the trade, I could tolerate the wear on the gold plating on the jack. I could also tolerate the housings losing some of their paint, but the crack in the strain-relief is not something I would have tolerated at all. You keep making the argument that that crack isn't a big deal, but I know first-hand that it can be. Especially with smaller headphones like IEMs that is likely to be one of the first places the cable of the headphone would begin to fail. Also, the amount of stress the cable must have been under to create such a crack there would lead me to expect that the cable is going to be weakened significantly at that point. I would not be satisfied with such a trade, and I'm having difficulty seeing why you feel that because you would be satisfied with such a trade, someone else should be too. The appearance of a pair of headphones is probably one of the quickest indications of how well it was handled prior to ownership, ergo, quality. Based off of those pictures, I would not have trusted those headphones at all as it doesn't look as though FYDave maintained them very well.

I wouldn't be satisfied with the trade. I wouldn't have traded Westones for Shures in the first place. In any trade, however, especially if I was concerned about the aesthetics of the piece, I would ask about the condition. I agree that the crack in the strain relief is bad, though I don't agree with your assessment of "it must have been under a lot of stress to do that". Headphones, especially IEMs get body oil on them, which will eventually degrade them. This seems like much more a case of Shure's design problem than any kind of abuse, and I'd wager that Shure would probably even warranty them given that their customer service is supposed to be pretty good.

Under normal circumstances, I'd totally agree that Dave should trade back. But these aren't normal circumstances. Mule has mishandled the situation and effectively abused Dave. The mob has effectively tried to bully Dave into doing what Mule wants. [sarcasm] Why oh why isn't Dave responding positively to this type of treatment? [/sarcasm] Again, while I would still trade back given that Mule is unhappy, I can certainly understand where Dave's coming from. Also, if I were Dave, at this point I'd be seriously concerned about getting the Shures back in any kind of usable condition. Given what Mule's already done here with this thread, I'd be astounded if the Shures arrived back to Dave unscathed. It's obviously not in Dave's interests to ship the headphones back, and given how much the mob has already jumped down his throat here, I doubt doing so would restore his rep. You posters have done nothing here to help Mule's cause, and in fact you probably have seriously contributed to the reason that he isn't going to get them back at this point.

Since returning the headphones is completely not in Dave's interest at this point, returning them to Mule would be a favor. Would you do a favor for someone who's mistreated and abused you? I don't think so. This is why I understand where Dave's coming from - he really doesn't have a good reason to return the headphones, and he has several good reasons not to. I'd have handled the situation much differently on both sides, but what this comes down to is the fact that Mule didn't handle himself well, and now he's likely not going to get his headphones back. At least, however, he does have the Shures (which was his original intention with the trade btw; just because none of you would trade westones for 530s straight up doesn't mean that Mule didn't originally intend to). So, Mule still does have functional high-end IEMs. They just don't look as pretty as the ones he sent away. As much as Dave is to blame for this, Mule is as well.

 

[appophylite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FYDave /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. I'm not psychic. I'm not aware how much or how little someone is going to be anally retentive over the cosmetic condition of used goods. 2. To be perfectly honest, of course many of you will simply shoot this second point down as me lying, I DON'T THINK THEY ARE IN THE SHAPE THEY MAKE THEM OUT TO BE. They're not broken. They don't function improperly. They have cosmetic imperfections. 3. If he is THAT concerned over cosmetic appearances, would inquiring about the condition not be the logical, intelligent, and RATIONAL thing to do?

Alright, Number 3 is a perfectly valid point that a couple of other people have made as well. Seeing the dearth of actual information provided in the original listing, TheMarchingMule could have, and probably should have inquired about the state of the headphones. However, Number 2 is absolute BS. The headphone jack and paint flecks aside, that crack in the strain relief should have been disclosed upfront. Unlike what certain other posters are arguing, that is not a minor cosmetic imperfection. That strain-relief is there for a reason and the crack makes it useless in achieving its purpose. Even if it is a small crack, it is there and it is going to get bigger.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't be satisfied with the trade. I wouldn't have traded Westones for Shures in the first place. In any trade, however, especially if I was concerned about the aesthetics of the piece, I would ask about the condition. I agree that the crack in the strain relief is bad, though I don't agree with your assessment of "it must have been under a lot of stress to do that". Headphones, especially IEMs get body oil on them, which will eventually degrade them. This seems like much more a case of Shure's design problem than any kind of abuse, and I'd wager that Shure would probably even warranty them given that their customer service is supposed to be pretty good.

I didn't say 'abuse', I said 'stress'. I've had a pair of headphones that I loaned out to my best friend and he used to cram them into a drawer that was barely large enough to fit them so he'd force the rigid strain reliefs at awkward angles and keep them that way for long amounts of time. It didn't surprise me that when I got them back, there were hairline cracks in the strain reliefs and that about 6-7 months later, the cracks had expanded significantly with further use.

Quote:

Under normal circumstances, I'd totally agree that Dave should trade back. But these aren't normal circumstances. Mule has mishandled the situation and effectively abused Dave. The mob has effectively tried to bully Dave into doing what Mule wants. [sarcasm] Why oh why isn't Dave responding positively to this type of treatment? [/sarcasm] Again, while I would still trade back given that Mule is unhappy, I can certainly understand where Dave's coming from. Also, if I were Dave, at this point I'd be seriously concerned about getting the Shures back in any kind of usable condition. Given what Mule's already done here with this thread, I'd be astounded if the Shures arrived back to Dave unscathed. It's obviously not in Dave's interests to ship the headphones back, and given how much the mob has already jumped down his throat here, I doubt doing so would restore his rep. You posters have done nothing here to help Mule's cause, and in fact you probably have seriously contributed to the reason that he isn't going to get them back at this point. Since returning the headphones is completely not in Dave's interest at this point, returning them to Mule would be a favor. Would you do a favor for someone who's mistreated and abused you? I don't think so. This is why I understand where Dave's coming from - he really doesn't have a good reason to return the headphones, and he has several good reasons not to. I'd have handled the situation much differently on both sides, but what this comes down to is the fact that Mule didn't handle himself well, and now he's likely not going to get his headphones back. At least, however, he does have the Shures (which was his original intention with the trade btw; just because none of you would trade westones for 530s straight up doesn't mean that Mule didn't originally intend to). So, Mule still does have functional high-end IEMs. They just don't look as pretty as the ones he sent away. As much as Dave is to blame for this, Mule is as well.

See, my gripe with Dave's not agreeing to a trade-back comes more from him blaming the mob mentality of some of the posters here and less about him complaining about TheMarchingMule. That is a piss-poor argument at best, and is just proof of a person grasping at straws to come up looking like a victim.

 

[olblueyez]

Reported, cross your finger people.

 

[ItsRy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif That strain-relief is there for a reason and the crack makes it useless in achieving its purpose. Even if it is a small crack, it is there and it is going to get bigger.

The issue is that the crack may indeed get bigger. As it stands, it appears as though the headphones do indeed function. A crack does not make it inconceivable that the headphones would stay in place in the ear. It just means that the relief is weakened and at some poin in the future if the crack isn't addressed then it will probably grow. At the moment, Mule has a completely functional pair of headphones, don't gloss over that point. People are still acting like the headphones are broken or that Dave scammed Mule. That's been the attitude this whole thread. The fact is, the headphones weren't in the condition that Mule expected, which amounts to it being Mule's fault for assuming that they were pristine and perfect instead of asking. Nowhere in Dave's FT thread or in any posted PM does it say, "like new," or, "perfect condition". Dave felt that they were fine headphones and Mule disagrees. Seems like that could have been rectified had this thread not happened...

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by olblueyez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Reported, cross your finger people.

I've reported 2 of his posts already. Nada.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Seems like that could have been rectified had this thread not happened...

How convenient...I guess we'll never know will we?

 

[Baines93]

I read on your website that you are looking into starting your own clothing brand. Please try. With this business ethics you will fail miserably, and hopefully lose every penny you have.

I'd also love to see this the other way around! If Dave got diddled and ended up with a pair of dogs worth 2/3 of the avg sale price, and lost his W3's that when mint had a higher street value anyway. The strain relief crack is not a good sign, as said above. It's not just cosmetic! and it's not just cos it will grow! It's split along way down already, and wont do it's job. It also means the friggin cable got tugged very hard, and 530 cables are a common problem with them, the cable is probably weakened and could have loosened tiny solder joints on the crossover, andy number of things other than cosmetic damadge! GRRRR!

 

[ItsRy]

Had Dave ever lied about the condition of the Shures, you would all have a valid point in going after him. The importance of the fact that Mule didn't ask is that it means Dave never lied to him. Don't act like he did.

 

[appophylite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRy /img/forum/go_quote.gif The issue is that the crack may indeed get bigger. As it stands, it appears as though the headphones do indeed function. A crack does not make it inconceivable that the headphones would stay in place in the ear. It just means that the relief is weakened and at some poin in the future if the crack isn't addressed then it will probably grow. At the moment, Mule has a completely functional pair of headphones, don't gloss over that point. People are still acting like the headphones are broken or that Dave scammed Mule. That's been the attitude this whole thread. The fact is, the headphones weren't in the condition that Mule expected, which amounts to it being Mule's fault for assuming that they were pristine and perfect instead of asking. Nowhere in Dave's FT thread or in any posted PM does it say, "like new," or, "perfect condition". Dave felt that they were fine headphones and Mule disagrees. Seems like that could have been rectified had this thread not happened...

I'm not glossing over the fact that TheMarchingMule has a working pair of headphones but I am arguing the fact that if there is a problem with the headphones that will result in them not working sooner in the future than expected, that needs to be brought to light immediately. The equivalent would be me selling you a house that has cracks in the foundation. The house is still standing right now, but in 5 years, the cracks might expand and grow large enough to result in severe reduction of structural integrity. Whereas, if the cracks did not exist, the foundation would last significantly longer than 5 years.

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsRy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Had Dave ever lied about the condition of the Shures, you would all have a valid point in going after him. The importance of the fact that Mule didn't ask is that it means Dave never lied to him. Don't act like he did.

To many people, the omission of the truth is akin to lying. The condition of the IEMs should have been disclosed. If you look at the majority of the FS and FT threads on this forum, people will disclose the slightest imperfection in whatever they are selling or trading. That's how it's done here by those with any sense of ethics. Unlike your boy (or self) FYDave......