[Assorted]

I've had some inquiry regarding buying/selling and shipping the equipment overseas, and I discovered that a good percentage of people wished to have their item prices declared considerably below the actual purchase, and to always mark them as "gifts", even though they were purchased.

After going through some posts here (one in the Vibe thread), and several more voices from various talks, overseas buyers expressed discontent to businesses and individuals for marking their products for what they are, and end up having to pay EU VAT, or brokerage, or any other fees.

I understand that the massive fees are frustrating, and I've been in the same shoes, being that I live in Canada, but I personally cannot justify lying to the authorities (which is possibly illegal) when it comes to business. Sure I may be young and inexperienced, but I have yet to be convinced that import taxes are merely government cash cows.

Or am I missing something? I hope some frequent traders here can give their opinions on this issue.

 

[Wmcmanus]

Yes, it is illegal. Up to you what to do about it, as with anything requiring judgment. You're not missing anything. I think you understand it perfectly. If you're asking for advice about what to do, that's really up to you.

 

[blessingx]

You seem pretty unambiguous in your stance on copyrighted material from your sig. Do you find this issue more confusing? I'm serious.

Ethics, and especially morality, are pretty separate from legality for me, but I do have a problem when a buyer wants an items worth declared at $50, but insured for $1,000. No one should require another telling of a lie that obvious.

 

[Arainach]

The other problem is that understating customs values screws with Insurance claims. Personally, I say mark it at full price and if you're feeling generous declare it a gift. A lot of countries tax those less if at all.

 

[tk3]

Declaring it as a gift does not make any difference, what the customs look at is the declared value.
There is a very low limit before items are exempted from VAT and import tax, it's €22 in The Netherlands, so pretty much all Head-Fi gear is subjected to VAT (19% of declared value + shipping costs)
Then, depending on what "type" of item it is categorized as, they can charge another 2-10%+.
And finally there is another €10-20 "handling charge".

So you can see that the costs add up a lot, and in some countries the number is even higher (IIRC Finland and other northern countries got it even worse).
On local boards you can sometimes read nightmare stories of people who buy items from overseas, and end up paying 50% or more extra on top of what they paid through some mysterious calculation that they don't reveal (also doesn't help that the documentation regarding this is written very disorganized and hard to peruse).
If you refuse to pay, the item will be sent back, and making a claim against these outrageous charges is probably a long and slow process.

Based on that, it is not surprising that many people ask for you to lower the declared value, I don't think it's entirely unreasonable.
But if the package arrives damaged or goes missing and the full value of the package can't be claimed because of this, then the buyer bears all responsibility in this case IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Assorted After going through some posts here (one in the Vibe thread), and several more voices from various talks, overseas buyers expressed discontent to businesses and individuals for marking their products for what they are, and end up having to pay EU VAT, or brokerage, or any other fees.

Personally I think that if you are in EU, and buy from overseas, customs charges are a given, and you should not complain if people aren't willing to do fraudulent actions for you.
If they have no problem with it, then that's fine.
If you don't like it, don't buy from outside EU.
If you end up getting not charged, consider yourself lucky, but it's not an entitlement, it is the exception.

 

[Binaural Fusion]

In all honesty, I usually prefer full value to be declared as I find it more probable that post will damage it and I have to make an insurance claim than customs actually puts their hands on my package and make me pay taxes.

 

[pez]

Heh, downloading music when you have no money is an excuse, when I do get money to spend like that, it does go on music. But, if I want an album, then I'm going to buy it or download it. And I'm not gonna pay some rip-off service like Rhapsody $15 every month to not own a song. Downloading music illegaly doesn't affect artists as much as people think. You see how many people bootleg Britney Spears stuff....and she's still rich. Peopleget overdramatic about this stuff. [End Rant]

It might be illegal to mark it as gift, but it would be stupid for someone to complain about fees. It's not the companys fault, at least the company even offers to sell overseas. I think people these days are just getting so selfish.

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you end up getting not charged, consider yourself lucky, but it's not an entitlement, it is the exception.

Actually I think it's the opposite. With so many packages going through each day, they don't have the capacity to check every single one.
If the package is properly marked on the invoice, there is a very good chance it is getting through with lowered value.

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nor_spoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Actually I think it's the opposite. With so many packages going through each day, they don't have the capacity to check every single one. If the package is properly marked on the invoice, there is a very good chance it is getting through with lowered value.

Heh, you don't live in Finland do you? EVERY package is checked, and if it's zero value, your butt is going to the customs office, if it' above 45 or so, your butt is going to the post office. Yes, they figure the cost of shipping into that value.

I have slipped through the net once or twice, but it has been at the customs office already.

It's as illegal as jaywalking is illegal. They only care about getting the money. Nothing else. The feds won't come knocking at your door, they'll simply tell the receiver to pay up. It's that simple.

Now it is in poor taste to ask for a customs devaluation, but if the OP considers it's ok to pirate copyrighted material, this is even less illegal.

I always figure in that it will be a factor when I make a purchase.

 

[Hadden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pez /img/forum/go_quote.gif Downloading music illegaly doesn't affect artists as much as people think. [End Rant]

You should say that to someone who makes a modest living off of their music and see what kind of reaction you get, after you dig past their polite diplomacy.

 

[pez]

Most people who decide to go into the music business realize that they might do good, and they might do horrible, so they should know if they're not that great, that they shouldn't depend on that alone. I've seen a band that would rather you come to see them live and buy merch and download their music illegaly, than download their music and not come to shows. If artists are really into music, they care more about fans than money. If they don't, than they are selfish and don't deserve any type of recognition at all.

 

[Al4x]

if i didnt initial download and try music i wouldnt buy/go to any gigs

theres no other effective way to hear music imo

 

[Trippytiger]

I've never asked anyone to declare a lower value for anything I've had shipped across the border (although some people do it of their own accord), and, you know, very few of my packages have ever been assessed import duties. So I figure that my honesty is getting me good karma or something, and I'm certainly going to keep it up.

Plus I don't think there's really much reason for Canadians to complain about the customs fees here. They're only what you would pay in sales tax anyways, so what's the big deal?

 

[Al4x]

ive only been stung for customs once, one ebay item came and asked me for a receipt to prove the value before i got the item, i edited the paypal receipt to a much lower value, so i got a £25 charge rather than a £100 charge (iphone)

bbest way is to make it believable, i wont buy somethin from someone if they are going to declare full value and its alot

 

[scompton]

I've shipped a couple of inexpensive items to the UK. I marked them as gifts with the real value (<$50). I don't know if the gift designation matters, although I don't see why it would be on the customs form if it didn't matter somewhere.

I've also bought CDs from Europe and Hong Kong, and some inexpensive equipment from Hong Kong (<$100). I've never asked for the true value to not be stated, nor have I asked to to be marked gift. Every package was marked gift. I've never paid import duties. Don't know if it was because of the value or the gift check off. Or US customs just not checking.

One thing I have seen on a couple of threads is the UPS has high brokerage fees that USPS doesn't charge, even US to Canada. It would be foolish to ship UPS over a border if you don't have to.

Plainsong, look at the OP's sig again. He's against pirating, not for.