up to 1/2 the sound field power reaching your ears in a real room can be the room modes, multiple reflections, "room reverberation" - so non flat headphone FR can be an attempt to correct for "free field" speakers/room response that the vast majority of music source is produced for today
and you should look at Smyth Realizer and hear one with a personal calibration with the head tracking if you really want a better appreciation of "EQ"
I dont object to anyone...yes he has a valid point, so do you and everyone on here. I dont hate anyone and yes as you say it is just the internet. I really am just trying to find out how close a headphone can get to the real thing. After reading your thoughts and everyone else's ( given how subjective it is) i am coming to a conclusion, which is unique to me.
The sad thing about Head Fi that i've noticed, is that if one person tends to disagree with the other, or points toward an obvious flaw in a particular ethos that they promote, they become annoyed.
heck, even when they do agree they can still get annoyed at times.
They end up making you adopt the condescending attitude that we see with Arnyk. If someone disagree's with you there's no need to act superior!
at the end of the day it matters because the graphs explain something very real, not just an opinion.
It's not the brain; the ears, head, and body actually physically interact with wavefronts to change frequency, amplitude, and timing characteristics of the sound before it gets to the eardrum.
Yes because headphones inherently bypass most of these mechanisms*, and thus must compensate for this fact if they want to sound "neutral." But since these interactions are specific to individuals, no headphone can ever hope to be neutral-sounding to everyone. The best they can do it to meet some average that requires minimal DSP to match a given person.
*Note that the headphones themselves can, due to issues of fitting, interact differently with each person.
Yes because headphones inherently bypass most of these mechanisms*, and thus must compensate for this fact if they want to sound "neutral." But since these interactions are specific to individuals, no headphone can ever hope to be neutral-sounding to everyone. The best they can do it to meet some average that requires minimal DSP to match a given person.
*Note that the headphones themselves can, due to issues of fitting, interact differently with each person.
This is why you don't see any headphones that actually go for a bone-flat response. This:
------------------------------ (← my elite flat frequency response drawring)
doesn't sound neutral to anybody if that is what is actually making it to their ear canal.
This flat response issue is, I think a great starting point to take into account. I like the idea that it's the talked about unicorn possibly never to be found but only approximated ( in a single headphone) due to ear physicality and other natural variables, as well as personal ideas of a "flat" reference curve.
What we're dealing dealing with here are personal DSP/EQ beliefs. A believer needs no proof and a non believer will not be swayed by all the EQ proof in the world. So stands the concepts and audiophile ideas till a time comes when maybe some technology changes the playing field.
Some of the great concepts I have learned in SS is that a closer to flat helps let you hear more frequencies as color means some frequencies are covered over. I learned that closer to flat seems to last longer in use apposed to the color of the month.
I learned at shows that everyone has their own special sound signature in their personal rigs and even though everyone is proud to a point at what they have achieved, every rig sounds different. Each personal rig is looking into a small independent world with it's own understanding of a musical reality. Many seemed very boosted in the treble area and had a thin detailed sound I thought I would have a hard time living with. And of course I found the statement signature that I felt was new found sonic perfection, just like most people do in time.
In the end does much of this even matter? What matters maybe is knowing when your enjoying color for the sake of color. And by that I mean, more color outside of flat. And with that maybe many should keep looking and evaluating systems and headphones. Selling one after the next like stepping stones? Maybe some should garner a stable of cans, some bright some dark, and ponder the reality if there is truly one finite reality out there in the audio world. And of course the other SS Head-FI member which can endlessly tell themselves they have DSPed their Koss Portapros to have all the sonic characteristics of the HD800s.
In the end I'm still buying new headphones when money allows, I keep what I have and listen knowing each one is showing me it's own special sonic world, some more clear, some kinda wrong.
And after all these years with headphones I still learn things. My big learning development recently was that different 1/4 inch adaptors can not match your headphone plug right and change the soundstage. I actually found out you should only use the adapters that came with the headphones with that exact headphone? Go figure? I thought the slight changes in soundstage was in my head, now I have found out there is a real world thing causing such chaos.
If only this flat headphone issue or DSP issue was so easy to nail down?
This flat response issue is, I think a great starting point to take into account. I like the idea that it's the talked about unicorn possibly never to be found but only approximated ( in a single headphone) due to ear physicality and other natural variables, as well as personal ideas of a "flat" reference curve.
What we're dealing dealing with here are personal DSP/EQ beliefs. A believer needs no proof and a non believer will not be swayed by all the EQ proof in the world. So stands the concepts and audiophile ideas till a time comes when maybe some technology changes the playing field.
Some of the great concepts I have learned in SS is that a closer to flat helps let you hear more frequencies as color means some frequencies are covered over. I learned that closer to flat seems to last longer in use apposed to the color of the month.
I learned at shows that everyone has their own special sound signature in their personal rigs and even though everyone is proud to a point at what they have achieved, every rig sounds different. Each personal rig is looking into a small independent world with it's own understanding of a musical reality. Many seemed very boosted in the treble area and had a thin detailed sound I thought I would have a hard time living with. And of course I found the statement signature that I felt was new found sonic perfection, just like most people do in time.
In the end does much of this even matter? What matters maybe is knowing when your enjoying color for the sake of color. And by that I mean, more color outside of flat. And with that maybe many should keep looking and evaluating systems and headphones. Selling one after the next like stepping stones? Maybe some should garner a stable of cans, some bright some dark, and ponder the reality if there is truly one finite reality out there in the audio world. And of course the other SS Head-FI member which can endlessly tell themselves they have DSPed their Koss Portapros to have all the sonic characteristics of the HD800s.
In the end I'm still buying new headphones when money allows, I keep what I have and listen knowing each one is showing me it's own special sonic world, some more clear, some kinda wrong.
And after all these years with headphones I still learn things. My big learning development recently was that different 1/4 inch adaptors can not match your headphone plug right and change the soundstage. I actually found out you should only use the adapters that came with the headphones with that exact headphone? Go figure? I thought the slight changes in soundstage was in my head, now I have found out there is a real world thing causing such chaos.
If only this flat headphone issue or DSP issue was so easy to nail down?
This flat response issue is, I think a great starting point to take into account. I like the idea that it's the talked about unicorn possibly never to be found but only approximated ( in a single headphone) due to ear physicality and other natural variables, as well as personal ideas of a "flat" reference curve.
What we're dealing dealing with here are personal DSP/EQ beliefs. A believer needs no proof and a non believer will not be swayed by all the EQ proof in the world. So stands the concepts and audiophile ideas till a time comes when maybe some technology changes the playing field.
Some of the great concepts I have learned in SS is that a closer to flat helps let you hear more frequencies as color means some frequencies are covered over. I learned that closer to flat seems to last longer in use apposed to the color of the month.
I learned at shows that everyone has their own special sound signature in their personal rigs and even though everyone is proud to a point at what they have achieved, every rig sounds different. Each personal rig is looking into a small independent world with it's own understanding of a musical reality. Many seemed very boosted in the treble area and had a thin detailed sound I thought I would have a hard time living with. And of course I found the statement signature that I felt was new found sonic perfection, just like most people do in time.
In the end does much of this even matter? What matters maybe is knowing when your enjoying color for the sake of color. And by that I mean, more color outside of flat. And with that maybe many should keep looking and evaluating systems and headphones. Selling one after the next like stepping stones? Maybe some should garner a stable of cans, some bright some dark, and ponder the reality if there is truly one finite reality out there in the audio world. And of course the other SS Head-FI member which can endlessly tell themselves they have DSPed their Koss Portapros to have all the sonic characteristics of the HD800s.
In the end I'm still buying new headphones when money allows, I keep what I have and listen knowing each one is showing me it's own special sonic world, some more clear, some kinda wrong.
And after all these years with headphones I still learn things. My big learning development recently was that different 1/4 inch adaptors can not match your headphone plug right and change the soundstage. I actually found out you should only use the adapters that came with the headphones with that exact headphone? Go figure? I thought the slight changes in soundstage was in my head, now I have found out there is a real world thing causing such chaos.
If only this flat headphone issue or DSP issue was so easy to nail down?
it seems like several SS members actually own a hd800 even though it's not a cheap headphone to get, and you're just making a very exaggerated caricature of what we're saying.
in 2015 I honestly would have hoped that everybody could go in a store make the measurement with a pair of headphone, and get out with that very pair and a calibration curve to apply in any and all media players. we don't have that, when there is no particular difficulty on the technical side, and that would effectively end the quest for flat headphone. but the audio industry would cry from something like this, they would have to change, it took them only 20years to start dealing with internet properly, that's how much the audio industry is willing to change ^_^.
I have a hard time deciding to pay 250euro for a super cool EQ, so 3250€(enjoy rate change+taxes)for the smyth realiser alone, + whatever headphone+amp I would probably buy for it, that's sadly not for me. but that's how to do it and it sucks to have only ever 1 single name to give as an example.
it seems like several SS members actually own a hd800 even though it's not a cheap headphone to get, and you're just making a very exaggerated caricature of what we're saying.
in 2015 I honestly would have hoped that everybody could go in a store make the measurement with a pair of headphone, and get out with that very pair and a calibration curve to apply in any and all media players. we don't have that, when there is no particular difficulty on the technical side, and that would effectively end the quest for flat headphone. but the audio industry would cry from something like this, they would have to change, it took them only 20years to start dealing with internet properly, that's how much the audio industry is willing to change ^_^.
I have a hard time deciding to pay 250euro for a super cool EQ, so 3250€(enjoy rate change+taxes)for the smyth realiser alone, + whatever headphone+amp I would probably buy for it, that's sadly not for me. but that's how to do it and it sucks to have only ever 1 single name to give as an example.
It is exactly an exaggeration and it was meant to prove a point. I agree that graphically many heaphones can be made to sound close to the same. Obviously if DSP can do that it can create a close to colorless signal to the ear, or a quality that sounds flat corresponding to each person and ear topography. I was even shown how different headphone material resonances can be altered to a specific duplicate side by side graph representation with EQ?
But still your going to have a group that feels that each headphone has an inate quality that can only be changed to a point even with the best EQ system.
It would be nice if headphones could be calibrated like they calibrate subwoofers with a microphone and software. Science has even allowed us to do pretty much any graphic property with computers, so is audio processing really that far behind? I'm sure we're going to have statements to the fact computer audio technology has surpassed visual image manipulation? They do go hand and hand if you look at the invention of the camera and invention of the phonographic audio recording/playback cylinder?
In this day and age of digital photography I'm normally pretty good at asking the photographer if the image was shot on film and not digital. I'm right most of the time. It seems film has an inherent contrast that digital has never been able to get to. Maybe for this very reason Tarantino is releasing his new movie on Chrismas day on 70mm Panavision film only? There is just a look that film has over what computers can do. This is maybe a noticeable concept in audio too?
One medium you see with your eyes, one medium you hear, and both can be processed and fine tuned with a computer?
It is exactly an exaggeration and it was meant to prove a point. I agree that graphically many heaphones can be made to sound close to the same. Obviously if DSP can do that it can create a close to colorless signal to the ear, or a quality that sounds flat corresponding to each person and ear topography. I was even shown how different headphone material resonances can be altered to a specific duplicate side by side graph representation with EQ?
But still your going to have a group that feels that each headphone has an inate quality that can only be changed to a point even with the best EQ system.
It would be nice if headphones could be calibrated like they calibrate subwoofers with a microphone and software. Science has even allowed us to do pretty much any graphic property with computers, so is audio processing really that far behind? I'm sure we're going to have statements to the fact computer audio technology has surpassed visual image manipulation? They do go hand and hand if you look at the invention of the camera and invention of the phonographic audio recording/playback cylinder?
In this day and age of digital photography I'm normally pretty good at asking the photographer if the image was shot on film and not digital. I'm right most of the time. It seems film has an inherent contrast that digital has never been able to get to. Maybe for this very reason Tarantino is releasing his new movie on Chrismas day on 70mm Panavision film only? There is just a look that film has over what computers can do. This is maybe a noticeable concept in audio too?
One medium you see with your eyes, one medium you hear, and both can be processed and fine tuned with a computer?
Digitally processing an audio signal was always a no-go zone for me, mostly due to clipping/distortion and mostly compression.
Until i discovered here that such issue's can be fixed. When i bought my first separates system, i was advised that the purest signal could only be acheived by directly plugging your speakers/headphones into the analog output of the cd player. But obviously that wasn't/still isn't possible without introducing some sort of filter. Although you can plug a headphone directly into an iphone, your not free of the digitally processed/compressed music. This is why i've been ignorant to the idea of DSP's, but i suppose it's good for digitally manipulating the sound. When i listen to my hifi separates system ( old fashioned analog), i feel it superseeds the issue of headphone coloration to the greatest degree possible.I tend to use nothing more than a cd player connected to an amp with minimalist circuitry and no tone controls.
I know the cd player add's coloration to the headphones but to the least degree possible. This is an old fashioned way yet still the purest most color-free way possible.
As far as i'm concerned, DSP's also color the sound because they are digital. And now i conclude that although the anatomy of the human ear affects the percieved sound, it doesn't do so enough to warp the overall sound of any headphone to an absurd extent. Speakers yes but headphones...the effect is minimal in my opinion, almost to the point of non-importance.
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
