[DC2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Attitude. Punk was attitude with force. New Wave was attitude all tidied up.

I like things tidy

.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DC2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I like things tidy .

I don't

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Attitude. Punk was attitude with force. New Wave was attitude all tidied up.

Or you might also say Punk is like RAMBO while New Wave is James Bond

 

[joincoolkidclub]

Punk has moved beyond a placeholder for a certain genre and has inspired lifestyles that continue on and are still in flux today.
New wave is only of the past. It has been brought back, but punk has never left.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Must admit...was not a music genre I ever enjoyed or particularly liked (apart from, in electronica, exceptions like Kraftwerk or Bowie's work on Low, Heroes...), so I tended to lump them all together in one amorphous mass, signposted 'Avoid'...

Heheh, you and me both. Although rare exceptions definitely applied.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Attitude. Punk was attitude with force. New Wave was attitude all tidied up.

Boom's got it. This is about as concise as it'll get. Tidy is for suckers.

 

[bong]

I always thought of it this way:

First came Punk (Sex Pistols, The Clash, The Ramones, Siouxise and the Banshees, The Jam)...

then came New Wave, which was a result/reaction to punk (Elvis Costello, Talking Heads, Blondie, B-52's, Pretenders)...

then came everything else that was inspired by either or both Punk and New Wave, with so many varying styles that people just lumped them into New Wave. Styles such as:
Post-Punk (Wire, Magazine, Gang of Four, Echo and the Bunnymen, The Cure, Public Image Ltd., Joy Division, Siouxsie and the Banshees, Simple Minds, Cocteau Twins)
Synth-pop (Depeche Mode, The Human League, Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, Tubeway Army/Gary Numan, Soft Cell)
New Romantics (Duran Duran, Spandau Ballet, Adam and the Ants, Visage, Culture Club).

Contrary to belief, there is a very strict boundary and huge difference between Synth-Pop and New Romantics. Synth-Pop was all about musical aesthetics and artistic exploration, with synths and keyboards obviously taking the forefront.

New Romantics on the other hand, did not require synths as a prerequisite, some New Romantics just happened to use synths. If you compare the sounds of Duran Duran with Adam and the Ants and Culture Club, all three bands sound entirely different. What held these bands to the term New Romantics was more of a style/visual aesthetic, with elaborate costumes, cosmetics, and avant-garde fashion... to the point where it was about escapism, hence being "Romantic." Of course, it had nothing to do with being "romantic" in a sense of mushy kind of love.

If you take a look at early Depeche Mode and OMD promo photos, you will notice they had no fashion sense whatsoever (Dave Gahan in plaid shirts! Andy McCluskey in woolen jumpers/sweaters!), hence they were NOT New Romantics. Pre-co-ed Human League and Gary Numan used costumes as an artistic expression, not fashion/escapism. Perhaps co-ed Human League can be described as New Romantics, but their fashion sense was originally branched out from the graphic design of their record sleeves. Depeche Mode later used leather and S&M stuff to coordinate with the music aesthetic of their subject matter, not as a "New Romantic" fashion thing. Same with Gary Numan with his various aesthetic changes.

OK, I'm done!

 

[tendo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qonmus /img/forum/go_quote.gif So what are the Talking Heads considered?

New Wave.

Punk is a thrashy harsh rock sound. New wave is much more laid back and often includes synthesizers, which you would never find in a punk band.

 

[scompton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tendo /img/forum/go_quote.gif New Wave. Punk is a thrashy harsh rock sound. New wave is much more laid back and often includes synthesizers, which you would never find in a punk band.

If I remember correctly, at least some of the talking heads went to Berkley School of Music. Formal music education is something else you wouldn't find in a lot of punk bands.

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviebee /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, I think you're right. Not sure what DM would have been classed as. Bleak Berlin later on maybe Must admit, the offerings of SB, DD, DM etc was not a music genre I ever enjoyed or particularly liked (apart from, in electronica, exceptions like Kraftwerk or Bowie's work on Low, Heroes...), so I tended to lump them all together in one amorphous mass, signposted 'Avoid'...

x3 and it also applies to Punk for me. I did go to quite a few punk concerts since they were cheap and most of my friends were into it.

 

[Dogbane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick 214 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll add to the above (very ample, IMO) response with a comparison: Depeche Mode (early, '77ish) vs. Sex Pistols ('75-on) NK

Another (even more extreme) comparison: Dead Kennedys vs. The Cars.

 

[Riordan]

bong finally brought up the missing link: post punk. not as rock'n'rolly as punk, but with just as dark an outlook, and, while bringing in synths, still relying heavily on voice & guitar. can you lump up joy division with heaven 17 in one genre called 'new wave'? the fall with depeche mode?

some overlappings:

early wire were punk, but soon evolved into their own variety of postpunk (and later pioneered electronica).

joy division were the quintessential post punk band, and from their ashes came a brand of synth pop that i would call the quintessential new wave band: new order.

then there's siouxie & the banshes: from sex pistols' punk groupie through new wave to dreampop...

my conclusion: at least in europe there were three distinct, but overlapping genres: punk, post punk and new wave. stateside it gets muddier: blondie or the talking heads were never punk, and the term post punk isn't usually used in an american context. early talking heads still remind me more of british post punk, blondie and later talking heads are new wave.

 

[rocksteady80]

definetly agree with uncle erik....so knowledgable

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick 214 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks! I like New Wave a lot, and don't think much of Punk. I like The Clash and Sex Pistols, but I find that musicians who don't know how to use their instruments... Well, are not musicians. NK

[SOAPBOX]
OK, you can't know much about punk if you think they all had no idea how to use their instruments. in fact, The Clash were quite talented musicians who went far beyond the "three-chord" aesthetic into the syncopated beats of reggae, R&B and dub.

just because the Sex Pistols and The Ramones didn't go beyond A-D-E doesn't mean the entire genre was defined by hacks. the Voidoids, The Dead Kennedys, X, Sonic Youth all had/have very technically adept musicians, just to name a few off the top of my head.

and i say this as someone who loves both classic punk and virtuosity.
[/SOAPBOX]

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riordan /img/forum/go_quote.gif bong finally brought up the missing link: post punk. not as rock'n'rolly as punk, but with just as dark an outlook, and, while bringing in synths, still relying heavily on voice & guitar. can you lump up joy division with heaven 17 in one genre called 'new wave'? the fall with depeche mode? some overlappings: early wire were punk, but soon evolved into their own variety of postpunk (and later pioneered electronica). joy division were the quintessential post punk band, and from their ashes came a brand of synth pop that i would call the quintessential new wave band: new order. then there's siouxie & the banshes: from sex pistols' punk groupie through new wave to dreampop... my conclusion: at least in europe there were three distinct, but overlapping genres: punk, post punk and new wave. stateside it gets muddier: blondie or the talking heads were never punk, and the term post punk isn't usually used in an american context. early talking heads still remind me more of british post punk, blondie and later talking heads are new wave.

all good points, although i'd say there was undoubtedly an American post-punk genre, distinct from British post-punk, which became the roots of indie rock: Hüsker Dü, Minutemen, The Replacements, R.E.M., Mission of Burma, etc.

 

[Riordan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax /img/forum/go_quote.gif all good points, although i'd say there was undoubtedly an American post-punk genre, distinct from British post-punk, which became the roots of indie rock: Hüsker Dü, Minutemen, The Replacements, R.E.M., Mission of Burma, etc.

strange that i never thought of my beloved hüskers or replacements (and r.e.m., at least murmur or fables...) as post-punk. thanks for the insight, that was the missing link that i missed myself...

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riordan /img/forum/go_quote.gif strange that i never thought of my beloved hüskers or replacements (and r.e.m., at least murmur or fables...) as post-punk. thanks for the insight, that was the missing link that i missed myself...

i don't think i would've survived high school without Hüsker Dü. by far the favorite band of my adolescence, and possibly of all time.