[kingsqueak]

Looking around the offices of the job I have and the last several I have had, I see people with advanced degrees who are simply unable to communicate. They are ineffective in verbal communication and worse with the written word.

The Internet is a pool that is much broader reaching than my office sample of workers in high tech. If 'techies' are unable to communicate effectively, it is hardly surprising that the less educated gen-pop is even worse.

The internet has just expanded to the point that the Jerry Springer audience is now connected. This is, unfortunate as it seems, Middle America. Welcome to the herd.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsqueak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Looking around the offices of the job I have and the last several I have had, I see people with advanced degrees who are simply unable to communicate. They are ineffective in verbal communication and worse with the written word. The Internet is a pool that is much broader reaching than my office sample of workers in high tech. If 'techies' are unable to communicate effectively, it is hardly surprising that the less educated gen-pop is even worse. The internet has just expanded to the point that the Jerry Springer audience is now connected. This is, unfortunate as it seems, Middle America. Welcome to the herd.

Watch out for conclusions like this. Do not judge someone's character by the paper they hang on their wall. Someone with advanced knowledge and intelligence in maths and sciences does not a good speaker make.

Dialogue is heavily gauged by the subtle influences of body language (an immediate hinderance in written discourse), tone and the actual sequence in which we compose our thoughts - all within the personal bubble of opinion, knowledge and attitude. Confidence plays a massive role too.

You learn the art of communication through communication. Plain and simple. Language and vocabulary are simply tools for someone to get a thought across to others more effectively.

 

[BrookR1]

I think the "art" of conversation died with the invention of the microwave oven; not the internet. Growing up for me, conversation revolved around the dinner table. With the microwave, I was able to easily cook my own dinner before rushing off to my after-school job.

However, with the invention of the cell phone and the internet, I can easily communicate with other people. The purpose of the communication seems to have changed from an "art form" from passing by time with others, to a means to an activity or desired outcome (getting a girl into bed or meeting sales goals). If anything, the internet has allowed us to just chat without consequences. Whereas a conversation over dinner, rules must be followed (no religion, politics, take turns, etc.). So, if your definition of "the art of conversation" involves rules outside of business, then yes, it has died; but not becasue of the internet. I think it's because of a shifting of the priorities in our lives and less idle time without distractions (TV, music, internet).

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif (...) Cicero told participants in a conversation, amongst others, to speak clearly and easily but not too much, to deal seriously with serious matters and gracefully with lighter ones, to not talk about yourself, and, above all, to never lose your temper. (...)

That's a bit of a joke, if you read his stuff (in Latin): He was quite a repetitive whiner and rather boring, for my taste. His Latin also wasn't really interesting... But maybe he was fairly entertaining in person - who knows...

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[lionel marechal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing that has grown (and I wish would deteriorate) due to the Internet and other digital media is the use of annoying acronyms. I really . . . hate them. Maybe I'm just old. LOL!

What does your login name means on head-fi ?

Lionel

 

[FalconP]

I've heard that the language used among on-line gamers is far spicier than what you see on ICQ/MSN/SMS. Any specimens to share?

 

[saint.panda]

Very interesting points made in this thread! I mostly agree with the point of view that the internet gives a voice to the people who were denied thereof in the past and thus could neither strengthen nor deteriorate the art of conversation. The deterioration becomes only apparent through the entrance of the indifferent mass. In this regard it is probably similar to the development of internet media and the gradual crowding out of old, i.e. print and editorial media in favour of blogs and the like. Just as there will always be the demand for high-brow publications like the New York Times or Economist, there will always be a peer group of those who will continue to hold conversation in high esteem, and foster, share and cultivate this art among friends and adversaries. And I think that this number of people will even grow given the internet's sheer unlimited amount of information and facts to base a conversation upon.

As for the direction the language as a whole is taking, that's too grand of a topic for me usefully comment on. As Nietzsche said, that which can be defined (and thus confined) has no history but that doesn't mean that conventions in language should be completely unchecked and arbitrary either, even though the decision to do has to be conventional as well. Anyway, too much over my head for now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a bit of a joke, if you read his stuff (in Latin): He was quite a repetitive whiner and rather boring, for my taste. His Latin also wasn't really interesting... But maybe he was fairly entertaining in person - who knows... Greetings from Munich! Manfred / lini

Actually, I never had Latin at school (French was a lot more chic when I had the choice). The quote about Cicero is what an newspaper arcticle told me about what he supposedly said and the point of that article is that the rules of conversation have remained pretty much unchanged over such a long time. Thanks to your advice I probably won't be reading Cicero anytime soon..

 

[plainsong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lini /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's a bit of a joke, if you read his stuff (in Latin): He was quite a repetitive whiner and rather boring, for my taste. His Latin also wasn't really interesting... But maybe he was fairly entertaining in person - who knows... Greetings from Munich! Manfred / lini

He's such an interesting character, the pater patriae. I think he was looked down on though, and I think he may have switched the order of some events around in a packet of speeches he sent to a friend, so that he'd look better, but there's no proof of that, other than in the order he presents events as having happened, it makes zero sense. Flip some thing around and oh, right.

I think he was witty, but I think he tried very hard to impress. Just my impression of him.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just as there will always be the demand for high-brow publications like the New York Times or Economist, there will always be a peer group of those who will continue to hold conversation in high esteem, and foster, share and cultivate this art among friends and adversaries. And I think that this number of people will even grow given the internet's sheer unlimited amount of information and facts to base a conversation upon.

Very interesting point. I wonder... teh internets is definitely still in its infancy; could it be that we'll actually see a rise in better communication as it more deeply entrenches itself into daily life?

Or will people find ways to anachronize (sp? Is it even a word?) just about everything?

[EDIT] For people interested, love him or hate him for his political/social agenda, Noam Chomsky has written some of the most astounding books on linguistics. Highly worth looking into.

 

[Piffles]

In everyday life, you choose with whom you converse, be it friends, family, collegues, shop assistants, etc.

On the net, you talk to everybody, including people who have no conversational skills whatsoever.

It's not that there's more indecent conversation on the net, it's just that you can't avoid it like you do in real life.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Piffles /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not that there's more indecent conversation on the net, it's just that you can't avoid it like you do in real life.

A lot of the trouble is how those who CAN communicate seem to adapt to these communication styles, eventually adopting it as their own.

 

[Spareribs]

Yes I believe there is truth to it.

With the rise of online stuff and cell phones, men and women are less likely to flirt and are more socially awkward. People are more comfortable hiding behind their cell phones and would rather text than talk.

Is this good or bad? Well I guess it all depends.

 

[F208Frank]

Definitely, people eating and staring at phones makes me little sad.