[macdane]

This may only be a difference of semantics, but here's what I've experienced: the bass of the 650 is not what I would call bloated, it's just that there's so much of it. Does that make sense? Referring to the bass as bloated implies that there's something wrong with the quality of the bass, when the only real problem is one of quantity.

Still, it's an easy problem to listen past and it gets easier as the hours wear on...

 

[recstar24]

macdane,

that makes perfect sense and that is a very fair assertion on your part. I would imagine maybe the right amp and right cable with the right source (sds-xlr balanced!!!) would tighten up the bass a bit and make it groove just a tad faster

 

[JaZZ]

The bass problem is blown up way over proportion by some posters. There's a tiny bit of overpronouncement, just like other headphones have their bumps in other regions, but it's by no means the monstruous coloration some of the posters make it look like -- provided that you've heard a broken-in pair.

To Patrickhat2001: The HD 600 (my HD 600) has the same amount of bass as the HD 650 (my HD 650).

To recstar24: Objective measurements are possible, but firstly they are normalized according to a standardized equalization filter (so not absolutely accurate), and secondly, they relate to a standard earshape and don't take individual anatomics into consideration. Furthermore, headphone listening is an artificial kind of music listening, so the translation of a recording thought for speaker reproduction to a headphone experience is up to individual perception. You may be convinced that you're right with your personal, «objectivized» interpretation, but that doesn't prove your view and your interpretation is right and contrasting ratings are wrong. I'm neither a basshead nor an unexperienced idiot. Headphone listening is highly subjective, like it or not.

 

[Bill Ward]

Not sure I agree that there is a bass problem with the HD650, more like a bass feature. I find the sound to be plush, and dark with the bass warming the lower midrange. Depending on the associated equipment, the result can be a bit claustrophobic or even tubby. I think people who appreciate the Senn sound make the effort to balance the cans with a source and amp that will optimize the headphone's performance. The importance of system matching is often remarked on, and I don't think the HD650 is better or worse because it benefits from component tuning to sound its best.

BW

[Edit] Sorry, didn't see recstar's comment about associated equipment

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ You may be convinced that you're right with your personal, «objectivized» interpretation, but that doesn't prove your view and your interpretation is right and contrasting ratings are wrong. I'm neither a basshead nor an unexperienced idiot. Headphone listening is highly subjective, like it or not.

i think something is getting lost in the translation here, i am not trying to prove anything nor do i understand why you feel i am here trying to prove something. I have stated repeatedly to you my impressions are not absolute, nor are they the end all to all things, and are merely an attempt at trying to objectively describe what im hearing, regardless of how flawed them may actually be. I am not saying i am right or you are wrong, it is clear that my posts do not convey that attitude and if they for some reason are conveying that attitude to you well please dont take it in that manner - yes this is a very subjective art but we wouldnt be here having this conversation if all we said was we hear things differently and nothing is better and its all subjective, this discussion between you and i has been great but now it is getting to a point where you feel i am attacking you or trying to one up you or something, that is not my goal nor motivation, so please do no take it in that matter anymore from this point on

 

[en480c4]

One of the reasons I chose to upgrade from my 580's to the 650's was the "improved" bass response. A friend of mine (n_maher here on Head-Fi) and I did some listening tests comparing my PPAv2 with his M^3, me with my 580's and Nate with his 600's. With bass boost off on both (off on his, not installed on mine), I found the PPAv2 to be a bit lean in both mids and lows, especailly when compared with the M^3. It struck me as dry and while the bass was more detailed than the M^3, it definitely didn't have the same impact. And now that I've moved to the 650's, I feel I have the best of both worlds. I feel like my PPAv2 now has the warm and thick bottom and mids of the M^3 or Millett Hybrid, but with with all the detail throughout the lows, mids and highs. I couldn't be happier with my choice... the 650 "rounds" out the places I felt the 580's were lacking in my setup, which is why I feel synergy in your setup is so very important. My 325i's are almost unlistenable (to me) on the PPAv2, but the 650's are fantastic!

 

[bigshot]

Here are some practical tips you can use...

If you are hearing a sharp attack on the bass and a bit of ring off, that's natural. Bass notes tend to hang in the air a bit. If your cans are reproducing the attack of the pluck properly, the ring off is most likely accurate too.

The key to knowing whether a frequency is colored or not, particularly in the bass is to listen for spaces between the bass notes. In extreme cases, the bass will never go away or sound different in different parts of the music... it'll thump away the same, regardless of what the music is doing. If there is a mid bass hump, it will do more than just make the bass louder... it'll push bass into higher ranges where it doesn't belong. For instance a violin or viola will voice frequencies much lower than they are supposed to. A human voice will sound a bit muffled and thick. Try pulling the high frequencies out and see how it sounds with just 7 or 8 khz and down. The high end can fool you into thinking you need more bass than you need. If it sounds balanced that way, when you put the high end back in, it will still be balanced. Then just roll the high end in until it sounds natural.

No set of cans is perfect. The trick is to get a set that's close, and EQ them into perfection. In most cases a simple adjustment of the bass and treble will do the trick. But listen carefully flat first and figure out what needs fixing. Otherwise, you'll just wander around from EQ setting to EQ setting. Flat is your baseline. You'll probably find that a very minor correction pulls the sound into the range you want.

See ya
Steve

 

[kunwar]

Yes, most definitely.

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ward Not sure I agree that there is a bass problem with the HD650, more like a bass feature.

Yeah... a... bass... "problem" ?!? Wow.

 

[acs236]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea Yeah... a... bass... "problem" ?!? Wow.

Perhaps a feature for some, a problem for others. The quality of the HD650's bass is pretty good -- or at least I thought so -- I just found there to be a bit too much of it.

Compared to the 580s, which I used to own, the bass was smoothed out. I found the 580 to suffer from elevated midbass. However, it seems as if it was smoothed out not by squishing down the hump, but by bringing the rest of the bass range up to its level.

 

[Andrea]

Yup, if I take my 595 as a reference for balance (which I'm disposed to do), in fact the 650 shows a trace of this so-called "problem".

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by recstar24 i think something is getting lost in the translation here, i am not trying to prove anything nor do i understand why you feel i am here trying to prove something. I have stated repeatedly to you my impressions are not absolute, nor are they the end all to all things, and are merely an attempt at trying to objectively describe what im hearing, regardless of how flawed them may actually be. I am not saying i am right or you are wrong, it is clear that my posts do not convey that attitude and if they for some reason are conveying that attitude to you well please dont take it in that manner - yes this is a very subjective art but we wouldnt be here having this conversation if all we said was we hear things differently and nothing is better and its all subjective, this discussion between you and i has been great but now it is getting to a point where you feel i am attacking you or trying to one up you or something, that is not my goal nor motivation, so please do no take it in that matter anymore from this point on

Yeah, sorry! My reaction was inadequate.

 

[recstar24]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaZZ Yeah, sorry! My reaction was inadequate.

no problemo - i dont mind going back and forth as long as we agree to disagree, that's all