[duncan1]

A week or so ago I was castigated/ heavily criticized  when I said that an output fuse in a power amp under heavy current conditions heated up and produced distortion that could be seen on a signal analyzer screen  and heard. I said at the time I could back up what I said in that and other matters I was not believed on. I said I hadn't the time to look through  25 YRS of EW/WW . 
       But I started  and guess what??------EW issue=August -1999- page 628/9-letters page- I quote-"A 1 amp slo-blow fuse carrying 20W/8OHM-generates---0.01% THD (third harmonics) at low frequencies.so fuse distortion could easily make the finer nuances of CLASS A linearity somewhat irrelevant--end quote. Said  by a sujectivist ADE ???-NO!  It was said by the " King of objectivists" -- A man who wont and never will accept " subjectivism " -namely -D .SELF ADE and well know over the World.
     I intent after reading more issues to prove to Head-Fiers -I DON'T lie.BY countering their adverse comments by FACTS.

 

[White Lotus]

Alright, let me try to translate here.

 
 

Hey guys, just wanted to set something straight (for the record).

I was under the impression that an output fuse (in an amplifier), when heated up, created enough distortion to be seen on a "Signal analyzer screen" (A cathode ray oscilloscope?).

Not only that, but it could also be heard.

When I tried to discuss it on head-fi, somebody disputed the fact. At the time, I replied that it was indeed valid, and that I could back it up. I just didn't have the time to look through years of research.

But I finally got around to it - An issue of a magazine from 1999 states something similar, to back me up.

Was this just an opinion? No, it was said by (..Who?) who is well known all over the world.

I would like to read more issues, to prove to you all that I don't lie. 

I will counter peoples arguments with facts.

 

[StudioSound]

There are some people that treat being objective just as religiously as those who believe in audiophile voodoo, sticking to their beliefs rigidly, unaccepting of anything that challenges them. Each is as bad as the other.

I take the scientific approach - if you can give measurable, repeatable evidence which challenges a commonly held belief (e.g. all digital cables sound the same) then I will take it seriously, and am willing to change my "beliefs" with sufficient evidence.

But if someone were to say "I swapped out my fuses and now everything sounds so much better" that is essentially meaningless to me.
If someone can show proof that it works, then I'll believe that it does - but this may only apply to power amplifiers, for example, and quoting a magazine is not much in the way of "evidence" unless they have detailed test results to back up that statement.

And if the fuse can have audible results in one amplifier, does it affect all amplifiers, or is it indicative of a problem with that specific amplifier?

There are some amplifiers which are affected by the capacitance of the cabling you are using for example - but those are improperly designed, so just because that amplifier shows a difference with the cables you use, does not mean anything for other amplifiers.

 

[duncan1]

It seems you know little  of electronic test equipment  .An oscilloscope DISPLAYS a signal it does not ANALISE it. A SPECTRUM ANALYZER  DOES . Cant you post with some intelligence other than make child-like sarcastic comments-Grow up!. - Tell me and other Head-Fiers WHERE I am LYING??? 

 

[00940]

Just for context: he's not simply quoting a magazine. He's quoting a letter to a magazine by Douglas Self. In audio, it's a bit like quoting Hawking on astrophysics. It's indeed no formal scientific proof but considering the expertise and reputation of Self, it's not something to be taken lightly either and we can quite safely assume that Self has plenty of measurements to back up his assertion.

 

[xnor]

Quote:

A week or so ago I was castigated/ heavily criticized  when I said that an output fuse in a power amp under heavy current conditions heated up and produced distortion that could be seen on a signal analyzer screen  and heard. I said at the time I could back up what I said in that and other matters I was not believed on. I said I hadn't the time to look through  25 YRS of EW/WW . 
       But I started  and guess what??------EW issue=August -1999- page 628/9-letters page- I quote-"A 1 amp slo-blow fuse carrying 20W/8OHM-generates---0.01% THD (third harmonics) at low frequencies.so fuse distortion could easily make the finer nuances of CLASS A linearity somewhat irrelevant--end quote. Said  by a sujectivist ADE ???-NO!  It was said by the " King of objectivists" -- A man who wont and never will accept " subjectivism " -namely -D .SELF ADE and well know over the World.
     I intent after reading more issues to prove to Head-Fiers -I DON'T lie.BY countering their adverse comments by FACTS.

Could you please link to the thread where you brought up that idea?

 

[White Lotus]

Quote:

It seems you know little  of electronic test equipment  *snip*
Cant you post with some intelligence other than make child-like sarcastic comments-Grow up! *snip*

 
That was unnecessary and harsh.

I am just trying to understand and interpret your post further. I'm interested to know more about the subject you've put forward. 

 

Just for context: he's not simply quoting a magazine. He's quoting a letter to a magazine by Douglas Self. In audio, it's a bit like quoting Hawking on astrophysics. It's indeed no formal scientific proof but considering the expertise and reputation of Self, it's not something to be taken lightly either and we can quite safely assume that Self has plenty of measurements to back up his assertion.
 

Thank you for clearing that up. This is worth noting, and it wasn't made clear in the original post.

 

[Currawong]

duncan1: Whatever points you have to make (which I think are welcome, as people with genuine knowledge quickly become fed up with the pseudo-knowledge promoted ignorantly as fact) are not going to help anyone if they are made by attacking others. Genuine knowledge that has come through experience is useless here if it cannot be communicated well. 

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

A week or so ago I was castigated/ heavily criticized  when I said that an output fuse in a power amp under heavy current conditions heated up and produced distortion that could be seen on a signal analyzer screen  and heard. I said at the time I could back up what I said in that and other matters I was not believed on. I said I hadn't the time to look through  25 YRS of EW/WW . 
       But I started  and guess what??------EW issue=August -1999- page 628/9-letters page- I quote-"A 1 amp slo-blow fuse carrying 20W/8OHM-generates---0.01% THD (third harmonics) at low frequencies.so fuse distortion could easily make the finer nuances of CLASS A linearity somewhat irrelevant--end quote. Said  by a sujectivist ADE ???-NO!  It was said by the " King of objectivists" -- A man who wont and never will accept " subjectivism " -namely -D .SELF ADE and well know over the World.
     I intent after reading more issues to prove to Head-Fiers -I DON'T lie.BY countering their adverse comments by FACTS.

 
But you do lie. Right here in this very post.
 
You say you were castigated/heavily criticized "...when I said that an output fuse in a power amp..." That is not true. My challenge to you was not with regard to a fuse in the amplifier's output, but rather in the amplifier's power supply, which was in response to your having said "The same can apply to fuses fitted to a power supply output under a heavy  varying load," with "same" referring to your claim that a fuse in the amplifier's output produces distortion that is audible.
 
And in response to that I asked you "How does the 'problem' [i.e. the distortion of a fuse in the amp's power supply] manifest itself at the actual output of the amplifier?"
 
To which you replied "By the heating and cooling of the fuse harmonics are created that effect the openness of the signal and add a slight 'rough edge'."
 
So what you were claiming was that the distortion of a fuse in an amp's power supply, produces audible distortion at the amplifier's output. You also added "Even the great anti-subjective D, Self agrees..."
 
And now here you are referring to our "discussion" in the other thread in the other forum, quoting Doug from a letter he wrote to EW back in '99 and saying "There! You see? I told you!"
 
But you didn't.
 
First, Doug is referring to a fuse in the amplifier's output, not in the amplifier's power supply which is what I was referring to. Second, even with respect to a fuse in the amplifier's output, Doug is not making any claims of audibility. And it was your objective claim of audibility that I was challenging and which you never substantiated.
 
I'm sorry, but your post here is nothing but one big straw man.
 
se

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

 
I am just trying to understand and interpret your post further. I'm interested to know more about the subject you've put forward.
 

 
duncan1's post here stems from a "discussion" he and I had in a thread over in another forum. It begins with this post:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664280/hi-quality-fuses-do-they-improve-sound#post_9454633
 
se

 

[White Lotus]

Quote:

 
duncan1's post here stems from a "discussion" he and I had in a thread over in another forum. It begins with this post:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/664280/hi-quality-fuses-do-they-improve-sound#post_9454633

Thank you for clearing that up. 

 

[esldude]

This .01% is not likely to be audible now is it? 
 
Even less so when the program material is music. 

 

[Steve Eddy]

Quote:

This .01% is not likely to be audible now is it? 
 
Even less so when the program material is music. 

 
And this is for a fuse at the amplifier's output. duncan1 was claiming that a fuse in the power supply resulted in audible distortion, even after the amp's power supply rejection will have reduced that 0.01% by orders of magnitude.
 
As I said, this is really just one big straw man. I never denied that fuses, by way of thermal cycling, could produce distortion. That is something I have been aware of probably for close to 30 years now. My challenge was to duncan1's claim that the distortion produced by a fuse in the amp's power supply results in audible distortion at the amplifier's output.
 
se

 

[duncan1]

For a power amp  to output  several amps of current the PS has to provide it .   So if a fuse is at the output of a PS it stands to reason that that fuse will be outputing at least that same current  It will be  heating and cooling in time with the current drawn.If as D,Self says [quite rightly]  it will cause  distortion products at around 0.01% DIS. If that PS is connected to a sensitive amp -Johns= 150MV in at 100k ohm for FULL output you will hear a degradation of the reproduced signal. You wont hear it on a low sensitivity amp as the signal to noise ratio is very big. It is a lot easier to design a low sensitivity amp that sounds "okay" because the signal will be so large in relation to the noise/distortion . So you will say to yourself "that amp sounds good" but that doesnt REMOVE the distortion products that are lurking at a low level.and on very quiet passages a slight "roughness" can be heard.AS for insulting anybody it doesnt stop other posters for insulting me or is it a "one way street"? 

 

[bigshot]

Objectivism isn't the truth. It's the straightest path to the truth.