[aimlink]

Quote:

It is not a level playing field here due to the DBT ban on the majority of the site.
 
Cable debates get out of hand on most forums, I do think that this one is one of the worst.
 
I think that equipment measurement is interesting, but I would not buy anything on a measurement alone.
 
I think that you also like discussing cables, I obviously do. Now I know about the evidence which suggests cables make no difference, I do not hear a difference. I do not think that is my mind playing tricks, I think it is because my mind is no longer playing tricks on me.
 
I have made a few comments on DBT elsewhere on the forum in the past, but have not pursed the matter and have stopped now. If anyone felt provoked by that I apologise. Bear in mind the sound science part of the forum is a free for all. Maybe it should have a rule of post only if you have evidence to back up what you say.
 
Please show me where I have been offensive. Your sleeping dogs comment was also made on the theory of burn in thread. I asked you there to show any offensive comment I have made and there was no response. So I ask again. Bear in mind on that thread you made such an offensive comment it was removed by the moderators.
 
I agree that there is reputable opinion on both sides of the debate. Based on those reputable opinions, I have moved from the pro to the anti side.

Hmmm.  I did get an offlist message about one or more of my messages being deleted because it quoted material from other posts that had been deleted.  I was reassured that my posts had not been deleted because of my breaking rules.
 
Though I quoted your posts in particular, I did so since they provided great cues for point's I've wanted to make in general and felt like making now.
 
Again, I do not wish to go through the exercise of what message of yours in particular that I consider offensive.  I genuinely don't see the point.  However, I do prefer discussing cables since it's multifaceted.  It's not only an interesting topic in its own right; but it also makes for an uncovering of inconsistent attitudes in general, especially among the anti-cablers who take positions of moral or intellectual high ground without any good reason for it other than failing to carefully observe one's own behaviour concerning things hifi in general. 

 

[Prog Rock Man]

 
Quote:

Hmmm.  I did get an offlist message about one or more of my messages being deleted because it quoted material from other posts that had been deleted.  I was reassured that my posts had not been deleted because of my breaking rules.
 
Though I quoted your posts in particular, I did so since they provided great cues for point's I've wanted to make in general and felt like making now.
 
Again, I do not wish to go through the exercise of what message of yours in particular that I consider offensive.  I genuinely don't see the point.  However, I do prefer discussing cables since it's multifaceted.  It's not only an interesting topic in its own right; but it also makes for an uncovering of inconsistent attitudes in general, especially among the anti-cablers who take positions of moral or intellectual high ground without any good reason for it other than failing to carefully observe one's own behaviour concerning things hifi in general. 

There you go again! Moral and intellectual high ground! Please link to examples of that. You make accusations and when asked to back them up, you refuse and don't see the point. Then you wonder why sometimes the anti-side does get a bit hacked off.

  Personally I just see it as life on a forum, get hacked off, calm down and continue on. We are capable of provoking each other, often unintentionally.
 
Anyway, back to the cables. I would agree that a very long extension cable, particularly one of high resistance is likely to be detrimental to sound quality. However, turning up the volume can counter that, but it may be to the pint that the music, whilst sounding fine is just too loud.
 
I have repeatedly stated that volume due to attenuation is a difference cables can make. I just do not think that it is significant and justifies very high priced cable, particularly ones that have a higher resistance.

 

[Albedo]

Being a rationalist and not taking into account free will, but see the universe as Descartes make some a determinist. The consciousness is only a small part of our being if we view the rest as subconscious and not unconscious as many in the field of psychology tends to do. In doing so it makes one aspect-blind claiming others of being too concerned about the aesthetic and the feelings of their inner psychological states vs. fine-tuned objective experiences of the outer world. 
 
There's always somethings that can't be explained, no matter how..
 
I got ridiculed when I dampened my digital transport with a ridiculous amount of bitumen, but the so-called skeptics didn't know it all, it's not just ones and zeros.
 
What about capsizing the discussion, how bad could a cable be..
 
Is a curtain-hanger that good on shorter runs and is Ronson pipe cleaner to recessive in the upper mids, but not too sibilant and generally good transient response and ICE-like deep-bass, when comparing to a 75 ohm digital cable?
 

 
As I have stated before, the curve (price vs. performance) flattens out in the High End domain.

 

[beeman458]

maverickronin wrote:
 
What's the harm?
 

 
Baaaaaahahahahahahahaha!
 
(Forgive my laughter but that was so over the top, I had to publicly laugh out loud.)
 
FWIW, with all due respect, the mere act of anybody existing in the Universe, automatically becomes another person's threat.  When somebody throws up the Chicken Little defense, that's when I know rational has left the room.
 

 
Also, your comparisons to other people blowing money on other hobbies aren't valid.
 
It's a vary valid analogy.  Anything that brings happiness is the same thing; pleasure.  Don't matter how you get there as long as it's legal or moral and much to other's chagrin, buying expensive cables is both legal and moral.
 
Just about no one buys a sports car or a fishing boat because they ascribe magical powers to it.
 
Of course they do.  The magical power of making one feel good about themselves.
 
They buy it because its cool.
 
Only the insecure need to be cool and anything that makes one feel cool is because of the magical powers they've ascribed to what ever it is they bought.
 
If you don't want to buy cables, that's fine but unless someone's hanging themselves with them, there's absolutely no harm in doing so other than to those who can't stand somebody having fun.  It's their business, and only their business and they don't need anybody to save them.  What you're doing is called projecting and your "What's the harm?" link is total strawman.
 
If you bought it because you think it will magically improve the sound of your headphones then not only can it actually be demonstrated that you were wrong, but it is symptomatic of a larger problem in the way in which you evaluate claims and make decisions.
 
Actually, there's no empirical proof cables don't work but if you want to think it's magic, that's on you.  As far as it being demonstrated, there's been no valid demonstrations, just a bunch of invalid test's, based on pseudo science, designed to create fail which faithfully serve the test giver's bias.  This is all well known but hey, you got your tests and I'm happy for you.  If dumping on another person's parade makes one happy, have at it.  In fact I'm happy for all the people who like dumping on other people's happiness.
 

 

[beeman458]

FWIW, it's all part of a chain from the origination of the electricity coming into the structure to the set of ears conveniently installed in our skull and one's awareness of what to do with them when they're called upon.  We all get there.  And how we get there, don't matter.  So I really don't understand this need by others who think they have a right to insert themselves into my and others lives over this matter.
 
???
 
The point, we don't need to be saved.
 

 

[Albedo]

HiFiMAN HE-6 Planar headphone have a silver coil so.. sometimes it makes sense, but in most cases coils are of copper (OFC, UHPLC etc.). The weakest link in the chain are how strong the chain is, isn't it?

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prog Rock Man /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
There you go again! Moral and intellectual high ground! Please link to examples of that. You make accusations and when asked to back them up, you refuse and don't see the point.
 
That's my chosen behaviour and I'm sticking to it.  It's not always about proving one's point, and really, I don't wish to go there.  Finally, no need to take it too personally.  You're one of many anti-cablers who posts in these discussions.
Then you wonder why sometimes the anti-side does get a bit hacked off.

 
 
You see.... a statement as this indicates that there's no point in siting any of the above examples that you wish.  It would get us nowhere.
 
Personally I just see it as life on a forum, get hacked off, calm down and continue on. We are capable of provoking each other, often unintentionally.
 
No doubt it's often unintentional.
 
Anyway, back to the cables.
 
Yep!!!
 
I would agree that a very long extension cable, particularly one of high resistance is likely to be detrimental to sound quality. However, turning up the volume can counter that, but it may be to the pint that the music, whilst sounding fine is just too loud.
 
Why would you have to turn it up to a volume louder than you'd want?  With my HD650's Silver Dragon, it's not a volume issue, but one of better upper frequencies coming through.  Could be the cable.  Could be the connectors.  I don't know.
 
I have repeatedly stated that volume due to attenuation is a difference cables can make. I just do not think that it is significant and justifies very high priced cable, particularly ones that have a higher resistance.
 
OK.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Actually, there's no empirical proof cables don't work but if you want to think it's magic, that's on you.

Just because we're not allowed to talk about it in this subforum doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Big Brother can tell us all to ignore the pink elephant in the room, but we all know its still there.

 

[beeman458]

Big Brother can tell us all to ignore the pink elephant in the room, but we all know its still there.
 
But what you're missing, just because Big Brother tells you there's a "pink elephant" in the room, don't mean there's an elephant to be seen.....anywhere.
 
You can't hear a difference and you have your tests to make you feel good about yourself.  I'm happy for you.
 

 
 
 

 

[PelPix]

I have honestly reviewed again and again this subject.  I work with these materials.
The lies are in the "MAGIC CABLE THAT MAKES ANYTHING BETTER!!!11!" marketing.  Headphone cable replacement isn't about replacing good cables with "better" ones, it's about replacing bad cables with good ones.  You can afford not to get new headphone cables if you have most headphones, because these stock cables are of reasonable material quality
 
There are times when it would make a significant difference to buy a replacement headphone cable.  This is not because the headphone cables are magically better than normal cables.  It's usually because the stock cables are bad and could benefit from being replaced with literally almost anything.
 
In conclusion, if you have, say, an AKG k702, you won't stand to gain much except some resolved crosstalk issues, but the HD800 demands cable replacement because the cable that comes with it is just so terrible.

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
Quote:

 
Have they done so? If they have, they would know there is a measurable and certainly audible difference if the cables are inadequate enough in gauge or length, and in some applications, when improperly shielded and in certain environments. To me, if an anti-cabler is going to say, for example, headphone cable upgrades make no difference, then I expect him to understand what sort of cables are used in stock headphones. There is a huge variety.
 

 
Sure. It's certainly possible to make a cable with such pathologically high resistance, inductance and/or capacitance that it would produce an audible difference.
 
However the more salient point is that it's trivially easy to make one that doesn't.
 
se
 

 

[PelPix]

Quote:

 
 
Sure. It's certainly possible to make a cable with such pathologically high resistance, inductance and/or capacitance that it would produce an audible difference.
 
However the more salient point is that it's trivially easy to make one that doesn't.
 
se
 

 
I couldn't agree more, but the fact is that somehow, some horrifying mistake has caused the designers over at sennheiser to make the HD800's cables terrible despite the fact that a monkey with a pair of scissors could make a low resistance cable.

 

[wmf]

 
Quote:

I have honestly reviewed again and again this subject.  I work with these materials.
The lies are in the "MAGIC CABLE THAT MAKES ANYTHING BETTER!!!11!" marketing.  Headphone cable replacement isn't about replacing good cables with "better" ones, it's about replacing bad cables with good ones.  You can afford not to get new headphone cables if you have most headphones, because these stock cables are of reasonable material quality
 
There are times when it would make a significant difference to buy a replacement headphone cable.  This is not because the headphone cables are magically better than normal cables.  It's usually because the stock cables are bad and could benefit from being replaced with literally almost anything.
 
In conclusion, if you have, say, an AKG k702, you won't stand to gain much except some resolved crosstalk issues, but the HD800 demands cable replacement because the cable that comes with it is just so terrible.

 
i believe stock cables on "most" headphones are of below to average quality  ....
 
 

 

[Aynjell]

Has anyone ever noticed that cable arguments are the most fun threads on the forum? They degenerate into almost 4chan like banter/worthlessness.

 

[Albedo]

 
Hmm..
Sennheiser HD 800:

Connecting cable: silver-plated, oxygen-free (OFC) copper cable, symmetrical, Kevlar reinforced, 3 m. In terms of connectivity, these headphones utilize specially-designed, four-wire, high-performance connections with Teflon insulation.

 
So is the trick to shorten the cable and change for better insulation (polyethylene) with lower capacitance?