[strangedaze39]

I like building my own cables if I can, but some cables I rather just buy. Alot of times you can find well built cables for a good price.

I don't see why you want to boycott cable company's, if they're customers they will always be around, and it's kind of silly to try to change people feelings about cables.

I see were you guys are coming from but their should be more important things to boycott then this.

 

[mark_h]

I love the scientific placebosonic benefit my expensive cables give to my systems, they counter the invasive, cyniseismic and negative white noise I hear most of the day.

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_h /img/forum/go_quote.gif I love the scientific placebosonic benefit my expensive cables give to my systems, they counter the invasive, cyniseismic and negative white noise I hear most of the day.

Get a dog !, best way to deal with normal human misery and daily stresses, however naff my day is I am always heartened by seeing me dogs when I get home - cheaper than six thousand quid of speaker cable and you cant take speaker cable for a walk

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by terriblepaulz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Waaaaaaaah. Mom - Scrith's breaking the rules. Seriously, that rule is what makes this topic so frustrating. The fact that we are forbidden from discussing this issue using the methodology most likely to provide a definitive answer is mystifying. I suppose, with the number of relativists (or anti-objectionists, if you will) as members, and cable companies as sponsors, that this is understandable and unavoidable.

That methodology provides statistical relevance. that's it. don't confuse statistical relevance with a definitive answer.

Also, if you've got problems with the anti-DBT "rule" in place here, why not take it up with the folks who can actually do something about it?

 

[883dave]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nick_charles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Get a dog !, best way to deal with normal human misery and daily stresses, however naff my day is I am always heartened by seeing me dogs when I get home - cheaper than six thousand quid of speaker cable and you cant take speaker cable for a walk

But you could use speaker cable as leashes. Single run for one dog, Bi-wire for two, Tri-wire for three.

Ah a dual purpose at last

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am sure you correct that most mastering studio uses belden/mogami grade cables, but I recall reading Bob Ludwig's Gateway studio a few years ago was using extremely expensive Transparent Audio brand cables, more than 5,000 feet total of various grades.......his results speak for themselves Steve Hoffman is using expensive Kubala Sosna cables, here is his gear list from his website: Steve Hoffman How can these elite sound mastering professionals have it wrong if cables make no difference as many here say?

Saw this article at Audiogon where George Lucas Skywalker Sound using MIT cables for sound studio:
Skywalker Sound
Another example of sound professionals that have it all wrong according to the "expert" anti cable crowd here

MIT actually tires to improve sound with thier various levels of boxes built into cables, so not really a pure cable design.

 

[Dorito123]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Saw this article at Audiogon where George Lucas Skywalker Sound using MIT cables for sound studio: Skywalker Sound Another example of sound professionals that have it all wrong according to the "expert" anti cable crowd here MIT actually tires to improve sound with thier various levels of boxes built into cables, so not really a pure cable design.

How much did MIT charge for that install? Being able to make that claim might just be worth a free install or at least a huge discount,,,right?

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dorito123 /img/forum/go_quote.gif How much did MIT charge for that install? Being able to make that claim might just be worth a free install or at least a huge discount,,,right?

is it just me or does anyone else find it funny that people that complain about unproven claims by cable makers have no problem making claims/inferences that are unproven as well. Maybe you can come back with proof before you put crap out there.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jp11801 /img/forum/go_quote.gif is it just me or does anyone else find it funny that people that complain about unproven claims by cable makers have no problem making claims/inferences that are unproven as well. Maybe you can come back with proof before you put crap out there.

Burden of proof lies with the party making the affirmative claim.

Hence why you can't logically say "blue eyes mean your the devil, if you don't believe it, prove i'm wrong"

 

[The Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Saw this article at Audiogon where George Lucas Skywalker Sound using MIT cables for sound studio: Skywalker Sound Another example of sound professionals that have it all wrong according to the "expert" anti cable crowd here MIT actually tires to improve sound with thier various levels of boxes built into cables, so not really a pure cable design.

Please remember that regardless of one's position concerning cables, user testimonials do not substantiate advertising claims. That doesn't mean the user is lying; it simply means that it is not claim substantiation as that term is used for advertising purposes.

I think this entire debate is kind of odd. I would expect that both camps would want the most information possible in order to make an informed decision as a consumer. So why would testing be a bad thing? Hell, I think my Cardas Senn cable makes a difference, but I have no idea if that's because of placebo effect or if it actually makes a difference. Regardless, I think I hear a difference. But I still wouldn't mind being disproven; I would just find it fascinating to see if a well-controlled study could be done to provide some evidence one way or the other.

 

[yotacowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think this entire debate is kind of odd. I would expect that both camps would want the most information possible in order to make an informed decision as a consumer. So why would testing be a bad thing? Hell, I think my Cardas Senn cable makes a difference, but I have no idea if that's because of placebo effect or if it actually makes a difference. Regardless, I think I hear a difference. But I still wouldn't mind being disproven; I would just find it fascinating to see if a well-controlled study could be done to provide some evidence one way or the other.

Indeed, and this is where caveat emptor takes precedence. If one believes that the objective measurements of a cable fully explain and establish its value, then so be it. If one, on the other hand, believes that the subjective experiences of a cable fully explain and establish its value, then likewise, so be it. Neither belief can be proven satisfactorily to either side of the debate - but if one keeps an open mind and understands that reality resides in both, and not *just* one or the other, better decisions can be made as far as esoteric, niche market audio gear goes.

Seeking more information is never a bad idea, but claiming that objective data outright trumps subjective data (and vice a versa) is ignorant.

Claiming DBT's or pure unsubstantiated opinions will provide a definitive answer (to anything!) is even more shortsighted.

further, since *most* of us don't have a slew of test gear to substantiate any manufacturers claims per the specific measurements of any device, but do have ears, if you buy what sounds better while being aware of the potentially biased measurements, marketing and advertising hype, etc., you might make decisions which keep you from falling victim to audiophilia nervosa.

Hence:

your.

milage.

may.

vary.

The person who claims to have ALL the answers is the most suspect, IMHO. Knowing and believing that you don't know is a very powerful testament to character.

 

[Scrith]

You're right, when it comes to my own ears, I learn a lot about cables based on both blind tests and long-term listening tests.

In particular I'm thinking of a case where I couldn't really find a significant difference between two cables in a blind test, but left the new cable installed for a couple of weeks and eventually heard something, a small section of a song with a lot of drums, that seemed to sound different to me. I went back to blind testing, using this part of the song with the drums. I could hear a slight difference. I wasn't really certain which one sounded better, however (another fun part of blind testing...differences are not necessarily positive/negative, whereas in non-blind testing the views tend to be much more polarized...mind games at work again!).

That being said, any comparisons/descriptions of something like cables that are written based on entirely subjective impressions are completely worthless to me. Anybody who has done blind testing will probably understand why. Anybody who has not (and cares about this subject) will probably dispute that standing, as the inexperienced often want to do about things they haven't personally tried. I highly encourage you to try it and learn for yourself the value of blind testing...once you have, I think you'll understand its importance.

 

[Telynau]

Well, one thing we should all agree on is that low resistance, capacitance and inductance are good, as are high quality shielding, robust physical connections and strong construction (allowing hundreds of connections and disconnections without signal degradation). All of which are why I use Blue Jeans cables ($32/meter) on my Audio Research preamp ($4K) and McIntosh tube amps (3K/5K). All of the nuances of different recordings and different front ends (e.g., DAC1 USB versus Wavelength Audio Cosecant v3) are very easy to hear. Regards, James

 

[tarquineous]

I agree too that the asking price is simply price gouging.
Many of the high priced cables are very good. The crooks know it, and that's when they raise the price. Then another catches on.... then another. Then they wonder why business is bad.
But please, let's not buy Radio Shack. They fall apart and they are made in China and Taiwan. Try to keep our money here.
E-mail the companies in question and tell them about their prices in a straight forward way.
That's one step in the right direction.

 

[d.phens]

I think whatever any logic or thourough tests might reveal, those who want to believe will still buy the cables or medication from Laboratoires Boiron. The amount of potential customers deterred is negligible. All those believers take that so seriously I don't even dare cables are nonsense. All I know is that so many popular brands use snakeoil in hi-fi... On one side there are true pioneers, innovators. On the other side there's a brand pushed forward by marketing inventing new phrases which sound so real nobody will waste his time to decipher what the 'facts' mean. I won't name any. But still Grasone and Ultrado and many others sound pretty good so the quality of their products is indisputable. Oooh, I've just named some... How will those brands explain you something that sells for 10 times the price of their entry level product is just a tiny bit better and their whole product line is using the 80% of the same basic components everywhere? How will they explain there's no R&D cost behind their more expensive product compared to their cheaper one, just a little more quality control, nicer packaging and all the breeze of luxury...
Think of it as of a form of sponsorship. If you're rich enough, just spend your money on that if it makes you happy. There will be more people happy to spend their time in the garden or restoring a vintage Beetle or perhaps even people who'd be unemployed if nobody bought that product.

If I were to fight any company it would be those huge international molochs who dictate what you eat and what OS you use and what you can do with the music you compose and perform yourself, introducing the same grim grey dirty mainstream fog into every culture they infect, controlling the governments, politics and being so powerful in forcing the users to become dependend on them, that no state can afford to stop their monopoly!