[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cactus_farmer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Therefore, is there an point in getting the Shure SE530 or Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi as they'll soon be replaced as Shure and Ultimate Ears release true 3 way systems?

i dont think they will ''replaced'', no way of that happening.

if shure and ultimate ears decide to manufacture 3 way earphones then good for them but i think we should remember that manufacturers such as etymotic etc have always believed they can achieve superb sound without even needing more than one driver...

if shure believe their se530 are still able to compete with westone 3 and any other 3 way earphones released then i cant imagine they will be in any panick to get a 3 way design out. same goes with the triple fi 10, they are simply too good to be ''replaced'', if they decide to go further and design a 3 way universal then good for them but im sure ultimate ears also believe thier triple fi 10 is more than able to compete with the 3 way westone 3, so again i cant see UE announcing anything soon.

 

[jinx20001]

i also think IEM's breaking the 20khz barrier is going to be no big feat to be honest, as 1...we cant hear above that range and 2... even anything above 16khz is not especially pleasant to listen to.

i think the only real way forward is by improving bass response. highs and mids are so easy to achieve but true low end response is extremely difficult to achieve, most IEM's create audible bass from around 35hz and above. anything below 35hz can ofcourse be achieved but the volume takes a drop, the quality and ability takes a drop and all sorts of harmonic vibration and housing vibrations happen and this takes away from the rest of the spectrum.

we already have superb highs...er4p, triple fi 10 (arguably) etc etc.

we already have superb mids...shure se530, klipsch (arguably) etc etc.

but as far as low end goes...every single IEM manufacturer is trying to find new ways to improve bass response, from ports to housing designs, driver designs, amount of drivers being used etc etc. it is all for that quest to create bass that sounds realistic, responds as low as possible and generally sounds pukka.

the ue11 and westone 3 are arguably the most advanced new IEM's on the market, both have had high opinions of them, but...both have been accused of producing bass that we just aint really used to. its a little powerful in other words.

i suppose what im saying is, we as humans have created these objects that can give us superb sounding music, heartwarming soundtracks we can relax to but we have a ongoing battle to create good bass from the tiny drivers we use in IEM's. this is certainly the way to go if we are to improve the quality of IEM's and the westone 3 and ue11 have certainly goine one step further to try and achieve this. but were still not there.

 

[shigzeo]

well, as sony, futuresonics and now sennheiser at the top end are supporting single dynammic drivers, i see no reason why other companies may not try to produce better and better dynammics. their only problem is that the driver must be large and the housing of the iem plays a huge role in sq whereas with armatures, it is not such a worry at all.

 

[mape00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sonically, however, IEMs absolutely have to break the 20kHz barrier. The vast majority of their sonic problems stem from them not being able to replicate overtones and harmonics properly, which messes up their tone. None of the multi-driver jobs with dedicated tweeters have, thus far, been able to do a better job than a single-driver ER-4S in terms of treble extension. No matter what specs say, 16kHz seems to be the barrier to meaningful output from balanced armatures. This has to change.

Absolutely! I've also noticed that LCD and some other technologies suffer from similar annoying problems. It is known that we can see the range of light 380-750 nm (in my case probably 200-900 nm) yet all colours on LCD screens are simple combinations of red, green and blue! What's up with that? Where's the UV or IR? Breaking the UV and IR barriers will probably be as big revolutions as breaking the 20 kHz barrier for IEMs.

And it's a strange coincidence that ANSI standard real ear simulators only go up to 16 kHz because of their physical properties. I guess they knew about the limitations of the balanced armature and designed the standardized measuring equipment to cover up this embarrasing fact. Coincidence or not? You decide!

 

[BloodSugar00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I personally think the 20kHz barrier is a bit over rated (in the sense of pract8icality), especially considering what IEM is meant for - portability. First, CD (and music ripped from CD, lossless or not) doesn't technically have much data pass 20kHz (this is a general cap music companies put on every CD). Second, Most DAP doesn't come with a DAC that support beyond 16bit decoding, meaning rendering sound beyond 20kHz is not going to be very practical. Even when the DAC does support 24/48bit decoding, you still have to find music that are encoded with better than 16bit setting. You could probably find some, but the majority of commercial music available as CD or from major music retail site will still be a bottleneck. Don't get me wrong, I do hope IEM in general can have a more linear freq. resp. over 16kHz. My point is I won't worry about the 20kHz barrier just yet, at least not till both the music industry and the portable music player manufacturers go beyond the barrier first.

I did not know this background knowledge ClieOS, thanks for sharing! I'm guessing this is one of the pros to listening to Vinyl then, that you avoid such a cap? It shows my relative freshness to this hobby, but do most full-size cans extend up to the 20KHz mark?

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BloodSugar00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did not know this background knowledge ClieOS, thanks for sharing! I'm guessing this is one of the pros to listening to Vinyl then, that you avoid such a cap? It shows my relative freshness to this hobby, but do most full-size cans extend up to the 20KHz mark?

Analog recording should theoretically has no cap, IIRC. Most big can can easily go up to 30kHz, though what I'll be looking for is a relatively linear response at least up to 20kHz.

 

[66645]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif None of the multi-driver jobs with dedicated tweeters have, thus far, been able to do a better job than a single-driver ER-4S in terms of treble extension.

May be I didn't get right, what you are saying. Do you mean that ER-4S have good treble extension? I have ER-4P, treble is very prominent but in the same time it is recessed on the top (compared to YUINs OK1, RE0, baby stax), it is simply cannot reach the level of good dynamics and electrostatic phones (portables). I realize that phones mentioned are not armatures, but unfortunately I didn't hear any multidriver armatures, hope that situation is better there.

 

[BloodSugar00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Analog recording should theoretically has no cap, IIRC. Most big can can easily go up to 30kHz, though what I'll be looking for is a relatively linear response at least up to 20kHz.

Thanks for confirming my anticipations. I'm definately gona have to look into getting a set of full-sized cans and expanding my auditory horizons and experience. Then again, I'd still like to try the image X10's, image X5's, Custom 3's, IE8's, Westone UM2's, Westone 3's and ER4p/s in the IEM category to name the most pertinent! And a portable headphone amplifier or 2

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