[cactus_farmer]

Therefore, is there an point in getting the Shure SE530 or Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi as they'll soon be replaced as Shure and Ultimate Ears release true 3 way systems?

 

[TheMarchingMule]

...We can only speculate?

 

[Usama]

I would think so. Unless, Westone has some sort of patent, where they are like the Mach 3 of IEM's. Forcing, Shure to market a 4 driver solution like Schick Quattro then UE making a 5 driver model to one-up everyone else.

 

[nsx_23]

There's no point increasing the number of drivers if each driver isn't maximized though.

 

[Aevum]

i think that the next developlemt will be tuning the armatures and side firing armatures, the phonaks and Super.fi 5 v2, have shown that single aramture IEM´s can sound better then some dual armature IEM´s, it about how you tune the armature and position it inside the body of the IEM, and you could have better sound quality and a more open sound just by changing the position of the IEM´s inside the chasing, insted of like untill now mount it directly next to the ear,

the more armature = better sound can only lead to more expencive and fragile IEM´s,

 

[qusp]

I dont think there's any doubt that shure will release a 3 way IEM; but westone spent a long time getting the crossover and tuning right for the W3 so it could be a while. as for all of them doing it. I dont think so. not for a while anyway. the price would be prohibitive for some companies. and just look at the sleeks. they were competing with triple driver 2 way systems with a single driver. so its not necessarily going to happen. but yes its all speculation

 

[dfkt]

 

[NeObliviscaris]

I think the next logical step is wireles.

Like Sleek Audio paired up with Kleer, I swear if Westone + Kleer develop a wireless kit, I will have a spasm!

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usama /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would think so. Unless, Westone has some sort of patent, where they are like the Mach 3 of IEM's. Forcing, Shure to market a 4 driver solution like Schick Quattro then UE making a 5 driver model to one-up everyone else.

You can't get patent for trivial thing like the number of transducers in an earpeice. Patent can only be granted to non-trivial, highly specific function related invention.
Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif I dont think there's any doubt that shure will release a 3 way IEM; but westone spent a long time getting the crossover and tuning right for the W3 so it could be a while. as for all of them doing it. I dont think so. not for a while anyway. the price would be prohibitive for some companies. and just look at the sleeks. they were competing with triple driver 2 way systems with a single driver. so its not necessarily going to happen. but yes its all speculation

W3 was first announced back at January 07 and allowed for demo on meets ever since. I am sure If UE or Shure want to, they already have plenty of time to catch on. Case and point, it only took UE a few months to develop and launch TF10 after SE530 was announced.

 

[mape00]

Yes, apparently, because it's good marketing. Most people can understand the loudspeaker analogy. And if you want to charge more for your products, you'll have to be creative and add stuff that sounds impressive (on paper). What was top-notch in the early 90s is considered crap today, you know. Single-armature drivers!? OMG, that's like shaving with a straight razor.

 

[qusp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can't get patent for trivial thing like the number of transducers in an earpeice. Patent can only be granted to non-trivial, highly specific function related invention. W3 was first announced back at January 07 and allowed for demo on meets ever since. I am sure If UE or Shure want to, they already have plenty of time to catch on. Case and point, it only took UE a few months to develop and launch TF10 after SE530 was announced.

umm because they already had a 2 way IEM; both companies. So it really wouldn't have taken much work to tune the 2 way crossover for 3 speakers. and if it was so easy for them to do in a couple of months, then why didnt they develop and release one and beat westone to the punch, considering they had that much notice that it was in development. and UE already havel; just not in a universal.

 

[TacticalPenguin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mape00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, apparently, because it's good marketing. Most people can understand the loudspeaker analogy. And if you want to charge more for your products, you'll have to be creative and add stuff that sounds impressive (on paper). What was top-notch in the early 90s is considered crap today, you know. Single-armature drivers!? OMG, that's like shaving with a straight razor.

says he who has the ER 4P as his avatar. early 90's was...... ER 4......oh, wow, they're still up there today. I wonder if that means anything.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by qusp /img/forum/go_quote.gif umm because they already had a 2 way IEM; both companies. So it really wouldn't have taken much work to tune the 2 way crossover for 3 speakers. and if it was so easy for them to do in a couple of months, then why didnt they develop and release one and beat westone to the punch, considering they had that much notice that it was in development. and UE already havel; just not in a universal.

If you are a manufacturer of top end IEM, you want to make sure what ever you are going to release (as the highest end model) not only able to beat that of your competitor, but also top your own previous model. Westone previous top universal IEM, the UM2, though good, are really no match for SE530 or TF10 in overall SQ (at least that is the consensus here, and my personal experience as well). Thus there is a reason for Westone to push out a model that is better than UM2 and capable of matching its competitors. Shure and UE on the other hands have no such desire - just look at the forum: some people prefer W3 over SE530 and TF10, but some don't. At least now Westone actually has a model that can compete with Shure and TF10 on the top end universal market. As for Shure and TF10, unless their top end products are very obviously outclassed by their competitors (which seems not to be the case yet after W3 release), there is no immediate need for them to react with a three ways IEM that are not going to be that much better from the other guys. This is all business strategy at play.

 

[catscratch]

I don't know enough about the technology behind IEMs to speculate what the next step should be mechanically.

Sonically, however, IEMs absolutely have to break the 20kHz barrier. The vast majority of their sonic problems stem from them not being able to replicate overtones and harmonics properly, which messes up their tone. None of the multi-driver jobs with dedicated tweeters have, thus far, been able to do a better job than a single-driver ER-4S in terms of treble extension. No matter what specs say, 16kHz seems to be the barrier to meaningful output from balanced armatures. This has to change.

It's very nice, however, to see cheaper custom-molded IEMs on the market. I think custom is the way to go. The difference between the UM2 and ES2, which use the same drivers and differ only in a fully-custom mold, is massive. Night and day, black and white, pick your stupid overused analogy, and it's all true.

Balanced armatures are evolving and improving faster than any other popular driver technology, and if they can manage to get the treble right, they can go very far.

 

[ClieOS]

I personally think the 20kHz barrier is a bit over rated (in the sense of pract8icality), especially considering what IEM is meant for - portability. First, CD (and music ripped from CD, lossless or not) doesn't technically have much data pass 20kHz (this is a general cap music companies put on every CD). Second, Most DAP doesn't come with a DAC that support beyond 16bit decoding, meaning rendering sound beyond 20kHz is not going to be very practical. Even when the DAC does support 24/48bit decoding, you still have to find music that are encoded with better than 16bit setting. You could probably find some, but the majority of commercial music available as CD or from major music retail site will still be a bottleneck.

Don't get me wrong, I do hope IEM in general can have a more linear freq. resp. over 16kHz. My point is I won't worry about the 20kHz barrier just yet, at least not till both the music industry and the portable music player manufacturers go beyond the barrier first.