[dvw]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif You may not realize it, but transistorized amplifiers *were* much better than the bulky, hissy, undependable, heat generating tube amps they replaced. And CDs do have the ability to sound better than LPs. You're applying the wrong cause to the effect. They don't sound good because they measure poorly. See ya Steve

Soft focus lens can produce "better" portrait. If you watch TV news show, sometimes they over use the soft focus lens on women anchor. So maybe there is good distortion and bad distortion to some.
The sad part is I wonder how many "audiophile" go to live concert and remember what live music sounds like.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw /img/forum/go_quote.gif So why can't the brain tell us to hear different things because the perception we had that we should be hearing different things.

That doesn't wash with me as I went into this whole cable business a skeptic.

EDIT: I do agree with the larger point you were making in your post though, preconceptions can definitely have an effect on what we perceive.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif Perhaps I misunderstood... Are you saying that interconnects introduce timing and phase errors? See ya Steve

Interconnects can alter the octave to octave phase relationships. (Group delay) This of course has to include reflections caused by termination and other impedance anomalies.


But...I do not know conclusively if this is what is causing the audible differences people hear between cables. Just conjecture on my part so far.

 

[chesebert]

I thought this thread would be locked long time ago. Is the mod failing us?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvw /img/forum/go_quote.gif Soft focus lens can produce "better" portrait. If you watch TV news show, sometimes they over use the soft focus lens on women anchor. So maybe there is good distortion and bad distortion to some. The sad part is I wonder how many "audiophile" go to live concert and remember what live music sounds like.

Absolutely, at least to my way of thinking, the live performance has to be our final standard of what sounds good and what doesn't.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif That doesn't wash with me as I went into this whole cable business a skeptic. EDIT: I do agree with the larger point you were making in your post though, preconceptions can definitely have an effect on what we perceive.

I could easily believe that the differences were entirely in our heads if it weren't for the fact of repeatable results in single blind tests, and what sounds "better" does not at all correlate with what is more expensive or what is cheaper.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif I thought this thread would be locked long time ago. Is the mod failing us?

I've decided to lock users who repeatedly make trouble rather than lock the thread.

See, I'm not above trying something new in the intrest of progress.

 

[philodox]

kwkarth - Very true, I've found many expensive cables that were bested by cheaper offerings.

 

[LawnGnome]

LawnGnome is away on vacation.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif kwkarth - Very true, I've found many expensive cables that were bested by cheaper offerings.

I am curious, can you give me a list? I still didn't find a better cable then the reference series IC i use now. And i tried and heard quite alot. Ranging from cheap to expensive. I ended up somewhere in the middle, buying second hand reference series of cables that otherwise would cost me an arm and a legg. In my system, it is way above anything else thus far.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigshot /img/forum/go_quote.gif If there are humans who are able to listen to music and discern .5dB differences in frequency response, they're wearing blue suits with red capes. Frequency masking can cause larger changes than the numbers would indicate, but it takes considerably more than .5dB to create any kind of discernable masking effect. It's important to keep in mind what these numbers relate to. 1dB isn't a heck of a lot of difference. See ya Steve

I would never claim such a thing, the science will back up 3db steps, since that doubles the perception of sound eg. it sounds twice as hard.

O.5 db is a very tough task, but i know who you are talking about. But to be honest, he's the other end of extreem.

Some things about cables and power i agree on with him, the rest is also a bit too extreem for me.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I could easily believe that the differences were entirely in our heads if it weren't for the fact of repeatable results in single blind tests, and what sounds "better" does not at all correlate with what is more expensive or what is cheaper.

Hmm, in my system, the most expensive reference series IC's i use still sound better then anything cheap. Also much better then the cheaper cables of the brand itself. So, price IS to an extend responsable for quality but after a certain point the price is not in relation to the improvement, if any at all!

E.g. a 3000 dollar ic can be as good as a 9000 dollar ic. A 150 dollar ic can be better then a 300 dollar ic etc. But on the other hand, i've never heard a 15 dollar ic sound as good as a more expensive one, let alone a high end cable.

I've also tested home made high grade ic's but while good, didn't reach the level of the reference series of ic's.

Some ic's have that magical touch that is not easy to reproduce; some have tried to copy certain brands and never really came close or bettered the original designs.

I agree that a good or higher end system let you hear differences easier.

I recently had my amp totally modded and i still can't believe how big the difference is! It's like going from listening to a disc, being transported into the live stage! That big a difference!

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawnGnome /img/forum/go_quote.gif LawnGnome is away on vacation.

Have a nice vacation and enjoy the music.

It's more fun listening to the music then talking about it anyway.

But then again, what else would you do when you don't listen to music.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've decided to lock users who repeatedly make trouble rather than lock the thread. See, I'm not above trying something new in the intrest of progress.

Much better.

Some people still wanna know why they hear what they hear and why some don't hear what i hear or what you hear.

One plausable and very possible explaination is that ears are in general not the same.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm, in my system, the most expensive reference series IC's i use still sound better then anything cheap. Also much better then the cheaper cables of the brand itself. So, price IS to an extend responsable for quality but after a certain point the price is not in relation to the improvement, if any at all!

Yeah, to a degree I guess I have to agree with you here.
I thought the Cardas Neutral Reference sounded better than any other cable I've heard, but I chose not to spring for that much dough. I settled for a second best solution that I could better afford. (to my ears and values)

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif E.g. a 3000 dollar ic can be as good as a 9000 dollar ic. A 150 dollar ic can be better then a 300 dollar ic etc. But on the other hand, i've never heard a 15 dollar ic sound as good as a more expensive one, let alone a high end cable.

I still have trouble with the ridiculously high buck cables. Seems to me like the manufacturer's are fleecing people with that stuff, but admittedly, I've never heard most of the ultra high buckage cables... At those prices, I'm not interested.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tourmaline /img/forum/go_quote.gif Some ic's have that magical touch that is not easy to reproduce; some have tried to copy certain brands and never really came close or bettered the original designs. I agree that a good or higher end system let you hear differences easier. I recently had my amp totally modded and i still can't believe how big the difference is! It's like going from listening to a disc, being transported into the live stage! That big a difference!

Agreed!