Is copper warmer because of signal loss?

Sep 10, 2007 at 1:46 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 452

flargosa

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I was browsing around head-fi last night and read somewhere that Copper is warmer than silver because more information is lost on transit compared to silver. This information loss smoothens out the naturally harsh digital audio. No one seemed to disagree, is this a fact?
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Sep 10, 2007 at 3:01 PM Post #3 of 452
I once made two sets of braided cables, one copper, the other silver.
The similarities because of the braided design compared to co-ax was quite clear, braided sounded more open.
The differences were smaller but still clearly noticable:
the copper one sounded more pleasant, to my ears because the treble was less smooth but also very slightly rolled of, and the bass was warmer, to my ears due to less definition.
The silver cables missed bass warmth but the bass was better defined and seemd to go deeper, the treble was equally more extended and detailed.
But despite these criticisms, the copper one actually sounded more pleasant, less analytical, more midranged-biased, perhaps covered up inperfections elsewhere in the system.
So yes, it seems copper seems to add a slight euphonic distortion, warmth if you like.
But keep in mind the usual caveats; cables are systemdependent, the wire was not exactly the same and other configurations can give other results, there are different kinds of copper etc.

Differences between cables might be characterized as small, but the difference between pleasant and unpleasant, or between ugly and beautiful can be small too, seen quantitativaly.


For what it's worth: Ray Kimber once in an interview in Hifi News a decade ago explained the dfifferences because of the material differences; he compared copper to a candybar, brittle and slightly irregular, and silver with a wax candle, very homogenous.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 3:19 PM Post #4 of 452
copper overall gives a fuller sound. silver is leaner in sound but generally with more detail. that has been my experience with the two cables.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 3:26 PM Post #5 of 452
I guess, we can say that silver sounds truer to your source than copper. If you want to listen to your source's true sound, use silver, for a slightly different sound use copper.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 4:52 PM Post #6 of 452
They sound different, not better or worse. As for why, no idea, but having heard the difference I am not going to second guess my own experience.

That said, I think that cable construction, geometry, and shielding or lack thereof makes a bigger difference than the metal used in the cable. Also, the quality of the jacks and connectors used have a large impact.

Last weekend I cleaned all of the connectors on my interconnects and power cables and there was a pretty surprising positive change. Now, I'm sure there are a few in this thread who are rolling their eyes at me right now, but I really don't care... I know what I heard, and that is enough for me. If you feel the need to prove me wrong with logic, be my guest.
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Sep 10, 2007 at 5:30 PM Post #7 of 452
Any evidence that one is less transparent than another?
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 5:32 PM Post #8 of 452
Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That said, I think that cable construction, geometry, and shielding or lack thereof makes a bigger difference than the metal used in the cable. Also, the quality of the jacks and connectors used have a large impact.


that's a very good point and not often discussed. zu, equinox, black dragon, and cardas are all copper cables, but surely do not sound exactly the same.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 5:33 PM Post #9 of 452
Wow, its amazing to think eh.

Copper can't even faithfully transmit data upto 20khz.

It must be magic how we have systems working over 5Ghz.


To everyone with their claims, either prove it or drop it. Because you have no evidence for your claims, facing mountains of evidence against it.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 5:37 PM Post #10 of 452
Dura is 100% correct.

I am sure those of you who cannot hear these differences either have inferior hearing or inferior equipment. I am also sure the differences in sound are not measureable by any current testing equipment. Some day, a clever fellow will figure out how to measure it.

Do yourselves a favor and compare a 1 meter pair of Kimber KCAG to any other copper interconnect, on a good system. There is a good reason this cable has been around, unchanged, for 20 years and has been imitated by many other manufacturers and DIYers.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 6:37 PM Post #11 of 452
Quote:

Originally Posted by dura /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For what it's worth: Ray Kimber once in an interview in Hifi News a decade ago explained the dfifferences because of the material differences; he compared copper to a candybar, brittle and slightly irregular, and silver with a wax candle, very homogenous.


if true, then he seems to be saying that silver cables will sound more similar to one another than copper ones. that's interesting as well.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 6:54 PM Post #12 of 452
Quote:

I am sure those of you who cannot hear these differences either have inferior hearing or inferior equipment. I am also sure the differences in sound are not measureable by any current testing equipment. Some day, a clever fellow will figure out how to measure it.


2 can play this game.

I am sure those who can hear differences are just getting duped by placebo, because it has not been proven that there are audible differences between different materials.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 6:55 PM Post #13 of 452
Quote:

Originally Posted by tin ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Dura is 100% correct.

I am sure those of you who cannot hear these differences either have inferior hearing or inferior equipment. I am also sure the differences in sound are not measureable by any current testing equipment. Some day, a clever fellow will figure out how to measure it.

Do yourselves a favor and compare a 1 meter pair of Kimber KCAG to any other copper interconnect, on a good system. There is a good reason this cable has been around, unchanged, for 20 years and has been imitated by many other manufacturers and DIYers.



Once again, prove it.

You have no evidence to support your claims.

It would be VERY easy to test the cable theory. Yet the supporters do not do it.

In fact, some of the only blind testing done has shown people can NOT tell the difference between high end cable and lamp cord.

Sorry, but your unproven claims are baseless and worthless.
 
Sep 10, 2007 at 7:12 PM Post #14 of 452
Sigh...

If you don't believe there is a difference between cables, then you have nothing to add to this thread.

You can leave now.

And yes I can prove it, but believe me the math of quantum mechanics is way beyond you. And no I'm not blathering. My background is in physics.

And just because you can't hear the difference, doesn't mean someone else can't. You can't hit a golf ball 300 yards. Does that mean it can't be done?

Now, go away and let those with some experience in the differences between what they hear, add their valuable experience to the knowledgebase here.
 

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