[jagwap]

And it doesn't affect frequency response... Then it must affect amplitude across the entire frequency range. We're talking about dynamics, right?

I'm guessing that this doesn't apply to headphones, correct?

Now you are being circular. We have been through this before, with papers, evidence, and simple terms.

Enough. Let betters minds take care of it all for you, like RF interference.

 

[jagwap]

For everyone else I welcome any questions, on this and other things. I have answered Bigshot many times with the same answers, but he has a selective memory for whatever his motives are. I am finally after years of this, sadly putting him on ignore. He obviously has areas of expertise, but will not accept others.

 

[bigshot]

If you just answered questions directly instead of trying to be an authority who knows and doesn't feel the need to explain we would all understand you better. This isn't a contest. I am trying to figure out what the hell you are saying, and pointing me at dense scientific papers without explanation is not going to help me understand.

Is this clearly audible in speakers? in headphones?
How big a difference is there? Is it big enough to hear without a direct A/B comparison? Or is it subtle, so you wouldn't notice it, but it measures?
If it doesn't affect frequency response what does it affect? Amplitude? Dynamics? Time?

These should be easy questions to answer in a single sentence.

 

[roadcykler]

It is measurable by Klipple, as they explain in the paper I link to YOU before.

"There is nowt so daft that will ne listen"

I searched the entire site and "Klipple" only comes up twice and neither has any paper, graph, table, measurements, etc. Would you be so kind as to (re)post here the info you have?

 

[jagwap]

I searched the entire site and "Klipple" only comes up twice and neither has any paper, graph, table, measurements, etc. Would you be so kind as to (re)post here the info you have?

Sorry, I spelled the guys name wrong:

Wolfgang Klippel, Klippel GmbH.

The paper, which shows measurement, is behind a pay wall.

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=16000

Before I found extracts and put them somewhere here. I'm a bit busy at the moment. Power amps going bang.

 

[castleofargh]

Here you go https://www.head-fi.org/threads/is-burn-in-real-or-placebo.663773/page-49#post-14845475

 

[bigshot]

Is this clearly audible in speakers? in headphones?
How big a difference is there? Is it big enough to hear without a direct A/B comparison? Or is it subtle, so you wouldn't notice it, but it measures?
If it doesn't affect frequency response what does it affect? Amplitude? Dynamics? Time?

I don't know why he can't answer simple questions... Maybe he doesn't understand it himself. He expects us to sort it out for him.

I'll add a new question every time the previous ones go unanswered...

Does burn in apply the same to tweeters as it does to woofers?

 

[castleofargh]

Is this clearly audible in speakers? in headphones?
How big a difference is there? Is it big enough to hear without a direct A/B comparison? Or is it subtle, so you wouldn't notice it, but it measures?
If it doesn't affect frequency response what does it affect? Amplitude? Dynamics? Time?

I don't know why he can't answer simple questions... Maybe he doesn't understand it himself. He expects us to sort it out for him.

He replied to the question of change from driver with the information he can share, and specified that it was demonstrated for speakers but not yet as clear for headphones.
That particular experiment does not involve listening.
TBH, how would you go about setting up a listening test where the 2 sound samples are tens of hours away from each other? Whatever testing method you pick, someone will say it's not conclusive for the real thing. I guaranty it!

 

[bigshot]

Are the measurements in the ballpark of what could be expected to be audible?

Whenever getting actual info turns into pulling teeth, I generally assume that it's something that has absolutely no application in our world of home audio. It's just an irrelevant exception thrown in to try to impress people who are easily impressed by such things.

To get back to the topic that I was discussing before this derailment, I see no reason to believe that headphones burn in. If I bought a new set of cans and they changed after I used them a while, I would call them defective and ask for a refund. I expect equipment I buy to be stable enough for normal use.

 

[UmustBKidn]

 

[UmustBKidn]

Are the measurements in the ballpark of what could be expected to be audible?

Whenever getting actual info turns into pulling teeth, I generally assume that it's something that has absolutely no application in our world of home audio. It's just an irrelevant exception thrown in to try to impress people who are easily impressed by such things.

To get back to the topic that I was discussing before this derailment, I see no reason to believe that headphones burn in. If I bought a new set of cans and they changed after I used them a while, I would call them defective and ask for a refund. I expect equipment I buy to be stable enough for normal use.

I'll go out on a limb here and say, mostly, I doubt it. But I could be wrong.

There can be unusual exceptions, but in those cases, you'd want to be returning your unit for refund or replacement. And, people can hook things up wrong, and blow things up. Most of the returns I've ever seen, were from dead amplifiers. Just didn't work, out of the box. But it's been years since I've had a dead unit.

Speakers in general are 'moving parts'. As such, they can change or degrade over time. How much, and whether you can hear is, are open questions. That said, I guarantee you that if you overdrive a speaker, it will blow up, sooner rather than later. Under normal use (whatever that is), lord only knows. There are too many variables.

 

[bigshot]

I agree.

We waste a lot of time discussing unusual exceptions and bleeding edge thresholds of audibility. I wish there was less ego parading and more practical advice on how to improve sound systems for human ears. Some things are red herrings and get more discussion than they deserve.