[ilikebands]

I'm somewhat of a noob in the realm of headphone amplifiers, having never heard a tube amp in my life and only budget solid state amps like the udac and pa2v2.  Although I've read much in the debate between solid state and tube, I'm still not entirely clear on their differences.  People may use words like "warm" and "lush" to describe tube amps, for instance, but that doesn't really explain much to me.  I think the sound of the solid state gear I have been using can be very lush and warm. 
 
I am currently pairing Sennheiser HD650 with a Yamaha AX-497, a solid state integrated amp.  I love the detail and richness I perceive from the HD650 with this amp, but I'm wondering if I can improve the phones even more with a headphone amp more suited to my particular taste.  I find that in most speakers and headphones that I've listened to, the sound can seem a little bit grainy and tinny.  It is hard to describe, but often it just doesn't seem to me that the music I hear is pure, sparkling and unadulterated.  Whily my HD650 sound excellent, they seem to be missing this sort of liquidy smooth sound that I'm searching for in my gear and can seem a bit grainy.  Another way of putting this is that I have a tendency to prefer a more live and raw sound.  I'd be willing to sacrifice detail if it meant I'd get this sort of sound out of my gear.
 
Will a tube amp give me what I'm looking for? 
 
 
 

 

[wgb113]

I don't know if a tube amp will give you what you're looking for.  I'm a tube virgin as well.  I preordered the Schiit Valhalla to find out if the tube sound is for me or not.  They offer a 15 day guarantee so it's worth a shot.
 
Bill

 

[Skylab]

It might indeed give you what you want, based on this - "they seem to be missing this sort of liquidy smooth sound that I'm searching for in my gear and can seem a bit grainy".  The HD650 can sure sound great with a tube amp.  And tube amps do allow some degree of tailoring the sound by tube rolling.
 
Tube amps are fun.  If you have the money, I highly recommend trying one.

 

[Uncle Erik]

It depends. People throw around the term "tube sound," but the reality is that all of them sound different. There are also lots more variables with tube amps, as well. The circuits themselves vary widely, as do the tubes. My recommendation would be to attend a meet and try a few out before investing anything.

 

[BIG POPPA]

X2, I don't disagree with everything with UE.

 
Quote:

It depends. People throw around the term "tube sound," but the reality is that all of them sound different. There are also lots more variables with tube amps, as well. The circuits themselves vary widely, as do the tubes. My recommendation would be to attend a meet and try a few out before investing anything.

 

[Caesar2010]

 
Quote:

I'm somewhat of a noob in the realm of headphone amplifiers, having never heard a tube amp in my life and only budget solid state amps like the udac and pa2v2.  Although I've read much in the debate between solid state and tube, I'm still not entirely clear on their differences.  People may use words like "warm" and "lush" to describe tube amps, for instance, but that doesn't really explain much to me.  I think the sound of the solid state gear I have been using can be very lush and warm. 
 
I am currently pairing Sennheiser HD650 with a Yamaha AX-497, a solid state integrated amp.  I love the detail and richness I perceive from the HD650 with this amp, but I'm wondering if I can improve the phones even more with a headphone amp more suited to my particular taste.  I find that in most speakers and headphones that I've listened to, the sound can seem a little bit grainy and tinny.  It is hard to describe, but often it just doesn't seem to me that the music I hear is pure, sparkling and unadulterated.  Whily my HD650 sound excellent, they seem to be missing this sort of liquidy smooth sound that I'm searching for in my gear and can seem a bit grainy.  Another way of putting this is that I have a tendency to prefer a more live and raw sound.  I'd be willing to sacrifice detail if it meant I'd get this sort of sound out of my gear.
 
Will a tube amp give me what I'm looking for? 
 
 
 

The SS and tube sounds have been converging over the last 10-15 years.  The more you spend, the closer are they are to each other.  If you are hearing grainyness, it's possible you have not heard expensive enough gear. (or there is something else wrong in your chain or the recording. Many people spend a lot of money on gear in search of the holy grail, only to realize once they got to the top of the mountain that the source material contains the garbage they are hearing!)
 
Good tube gear is not necessarily warm or lush.  It does have a bit of naturalness to it, as well as some three-dimensionality.  Think of great tube gear as slowly moving your fingers along a piece of cloth to feel the texture.
 
As suggested, get out there and hear as much stuff as you can.
 
The better the equipment, the more it gets out of the way.  You forget about the midrange, the soundstage, the highs, BS, BS, BS etc.  The audiophile terms everyone fixates on go to hell.  You forget the equipment.  You focus on the music.  You feel the emotions the musicians are trying to convey.  That's the point of the hobby.  Enjoy!
 

 

[cpetkus]

Quote:

It depends. People throw around the term "tube sound," but the reality is that all of them sound different. There are also lots more variables with tube amps, as well. The circuits themselves vary widely, as do the tubes. My recommendation would be to attend a meet and try a few out before investing anything.

Where would one find out about such "meets"?
What is the protocol?
I am new to this too, so that seems like a good place to get ideas.
Thanks.

 

[fmzip]

Curious to read what you have to say regarding the presentation with your AKG 702's!

 

[Uncle Erik]

Caesar2010, the sound of tube and solid state equipment has not been converging over the past 10-15 years. If anything, the tube field is more varied that it has ever been. One of the hottest trends with tube gear is going for single-ended triode (SET) amps, often with directly-heated triodes (DHT). If you've never come across a nice 300B or 2A3 amp, I can assure you that they sound *nothing* like solid state. There are more OTLs on the market, as well. As tube have grown in popularity, more and more circuit varieties are turning up. 15 years ago, you had just two or three manufacturers making only speaker power amps. 99% of those were push-pull amps. Today, there are probably a couple hundred manufacturers and you can get everything from push-pull to OTL to SET to all manner of exotica. These all have their own particular quirks and sounds - very few have much in common with solid state.

As for the meets, check the subforum for them - there's a separate area for discussing and planning them. If there isn't one in your area, you are welcome to arrange one. Some times there are mini-meets in someone's home, but you can also put on a larger meet if you have access to a community room, school, or any other public place. Sometimes people use the rec room at their apartment complex, too. You'll need to provide some tables and chairs as well as make sure the room has enough electrical outlets.

With any luck, you'll get local Head-Fi'ers to show up and bring their gear. Sharing your equipment at a meet is a tradition here and probably the best part of being a member. I've been to several meets now and every one has been a great time. Usually, we'll listen and quietly socialize for the better part of the day. Then we'll pack up and go out to dinner somewhere. Also, Head-Fi puts on big national meets every year. In June, we gathered in Chicago for two days. Lots and lots of gear, vendors turned out, and we had a great time.

 

[ilikebands]

I was listening to a few albums on vinyl last night and I realized the grainy sound I was complaining about was corrected when listening to an LP.  Maybe the problem lies not in the equipment but in the digital format in general?

 

[Caesar2010]

 
Quote:

Caesar2010, the sound of tube and solid state equipment has not been converging over the past 10-15 years. If anything, the tube field is more varied that it has ever been. One of the hottest trends with tube gear is going for single-ended triode (SET) amps, often with directly-heated triodes (DHT). If you've never come across a nice 300B or 2A3 amp, I can assure you that they sound *nothing* like solid state. There are more OTLs on the market, as well. As tube have grown in popularity, more and more circuit varieties are turning up. 15 years ago, you had just two or three manufacturers making only speaker power amps. 99% of those were push-pull amps. Today, there are probably a couple hundred manufacturers and you can get everything from push-pull to OTL to SET to all manner of exotica. These all have their own particular quirks and sounds - very few have much in common with solid state.
 

 
You are probably right about the lower and mid-priced and lower-priced units.  I don't have much knowledge nor interest in these units.  There are people in this hobby focused on "balanced", "OTL", tube rolling, cable differences, etc., and that's great if it rocks their boat.  I am more interested in forgetting about the equipment and enjoying the music. 
 
However, I am not sure I agree with you about the higher priced units.
 
Traditionally, SS was known for bottom-end extension and control, as well as the overall solidity, focus, and high-frequency extension that the tubes couldn't do.  The tubes, however, excelled at creating a magical midrange and musical continuity, while sacrificing the sound at the frequency extremes.  (Some people call it coloration, distortion, etc.).  Recent SS designs have produced a warmer and more texturally rich sound, while holding on to the traditional SS virtues.  The Luxman SS amp is a great example of this. Tube designs also been approaching the SS camp by leaving behind the soft, lush, romantic sound and instead creating a more subjectively "neutral" presentation with better frequency extension.  The Manley 300B is a great example of this.  Sure there are still some differences.  But overall, the tradeoff between the designs has gotten less at the higher end, which is great.
 
Great listening!

 

[Caesar2010]

Quote:

I was listening to a few albums on vinyl last night and I realized the grainy sound I was complaining about was corrected when listening to an LP.  Maybe the problem lies not in the equipment but in the digital format in general?

Yes, it could be that.  As discussed in many other threads, the CD just does not store enough musical information.  However, there are many CD's that are great recordings and sound fabulous.  The question for you is to figure out what you listen to and pick out the best source for that.  The better the amp, the more musical information it will pass on from the source to the headphones.

 

[cpetkus]

Quote:

In June, we gathered in Chicago for two days. Lots and lots of gear, vendors turned out, and we had a great time.

Bummer. 
Wish I had discovered this community a couple months earlier as I live 20 minutes from where the Chicago meet was!
Next time I guess.