[zerogun]

Hi guys,

It's been some time since I last visited this forum, but I've recently revisited my quiet passion for audio. I picked up a pair of B&W PX's and really love the sound out of them, but as most people, I'm curious to hear how much better these cans can get.

I've read numerous accounts on these forums where the PX's plugged in sound like a completely different set of cans (in a good way), but because most of my usage for these headphones is with my iPhone X wireless, I'm curious to see if a DAP will be worth the investment for such a neutral set of headphones.

There are heaps on offer these days ranging from budget to true audiophile level DAP's, and I guess I fall somewhere in between. I'm very interested in picking up a DAP, but really only if the technology allows for sonic improvements/exploration (in any regard) with the DAP.

Can you fellow head-fi'ers drop me some wisdom to assist me with my decision a little? Thanks!

 

[buke9]

Wireless is not going to change much even with a dap. You would be waisting your money . The HD-1’s I bought for my wife are so much better wired.

 

[zerogun]

Wireless is not going to change much even with a dap. You would be waisting your money . The HD-1’s I bought for my wife are so much better wired.

Thanke buke9 I was afraid of that! So it looks like wireless-ly speaking, the best I can do is probably just keep using µRa to listen to my music. I guess I should also explore lossless files as well to hear if there's anything noticeable.

Appreciate the feedback!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

It's been some time since I last visited this forum, but I've recently revisited my quiet passion for audio. I picked up a pair of B&W PX's and really love the sound out of them, but as most people, I'm curious to hear how much better these cans can get.

I've read numerous accounts on these forums where the PX's plugged in sound like a completely different set of cans (in a good way), but because most of my usage for these headphones is with my iPhone X wireless, I'm curious to see if a DAP will be worth the investment for such a neutral set of headphones.

There are heaps on offer these days ranging from budget to true audiophile level DAP's, and I guess I fall somewhere in between. I'm very interested in picking up a DAP, but really only if the technology allows for sonic improvements/exploration (in any regard) with the DAP.

Using it wireless negates the DAP's audio circuit. At best you'll use the audio processor for EQ and room simulation, but that's if the DAP even has those.

If you use them wired it won't make much of a difference. One design parameter for wireless headphones is that the transducers need to be very efficient, more than most other concerns like getting the absolute smoothest graph with very low driver distortion, so even the amplifier built into them can get them loud and last a whole long haul flight.

 

[zerogun]

Using it wireless negates the DAP's audio circuit. At best you'll use the audio processor for EQ and room simulation, but that's if the DAP even has those.

If you use them wired it won't make much of a difference. One design parameter for wireless headphones is that the transducers need to be very efficient, more than most other concerns like getting the absolute smoothest graph with very low driver distortion, so even the amplifier built into them can get them loud and last a whole long haul flight.

So you're saying that even if I were to use my PX's wired with a DAP, the improvement would be nominal and placebo effect at best? Is this a correct understanding of your statement? Really appreciate the breakdown!

Keep'em coming if anyone else has input!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

So you're saying that even if I were to use my PX's wired with a DAP, the improvement would be nominal and placebo effect at best? Is this a correct understanding of your statement? Really appreciate the breakdown!

Yes. Power requirement on wireless headphones isn't high enough to warrant more power from a DAP.

 

[zerogun]

Yes. Power requirement on wireless headphones isn't high enough to warrant more power from a DAP.

Got it thanks! I guess that means if I'm ever on the lookout for a DAP, it's really looking for a dedicated wired headphone!

Does this hobby get expensive or what? haha

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Got it thanks! I guess that means if I'm ever on the lookout for a DAP, it's really looking for a dedicated wired headphone!

That depends. If the wired headphone has a low enough sensitivity or high impedance but not high sensitivity then the DAP will cost a lot of money but the amp section isn't going to really drive such headphones. You'd just double up on a function your existing device already has, ie, the interface and player.

On top of that most of such headphones are open backs that you can't use outside, and can be heavy or cumbersome even with closed cups. Might as well blow the same money on a desktop DAC-HPamp than a DAP.

 

[easily_amused]

That depends. If the wired headphone has a low enough sensitivity or high impedance but not high sensitivity then the DAP will cost a lot of money but the amp section isn't going to really drive such headphones. You'd just double up on a function your existing device already has, ie, the interface and player.

On top of that most of such headphones are open backs that you can't use outside, and can be heavy or cumbersome even with closed cups. Might as well blow the same money on a desktop DAC-HPamp than a DAP.

Or get a good DAP and some IEMs which will knock your socks off, like Andromedas etc.

 

[mhitchcock]

I was just wondering the same about aptx hd with wireless headphones vs and a dedicated music player that also supports aptx. I also have the B&W px and was wondering if the audio will sound better with a dedicated music player via aptx hd e.g Fiio M9 or my motorola moto Z play mobile phone that also has aptx hd? Would there be any difference in sound quality from the two different devices playing with aptx?

Also am I correct in thinking that the PX's won't sound any different wired because of the dac inside the headphones? I have tried to listen but am not quite sure. Placebo perhaps.

I would also like to have a listen to some Sennheiser HD660s to compare the sound between wireless closed back an open wired.

Do you guys think there would be much difference or would it be minimal

Sorry about ten questions in one though

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I was just wondering the same about aptx hd with wireless headphones vs and a dedicated music player that also supports aptx. I also have the B&W px and was wondering if the audio will sound better with a dedicated music player via aptx hd e.g Fiio M9 or my motorola moto Z play mobile phone that also has aptx hd? Would there be any difference in sound quality from the two different devices playing with aptx?

If one of them is running some kind of DSP feature then sure, one will sound different. Or if both are running different DSP tricks. But then why buy a device where the development costs likely all went to the DAC and amplifier circuit than the interface let alone the DSP when you have a device that already invested on the interface and in some cases (like Samsungs) the DSP as well?

Also am I correct in thinking that the PX's won't sound any different wired because of the dac inside the headphones? I have tried to listen but am not quite sure. Placebo perhaps.

It depends. If it has a full bypass wiring then the amplifier will directly drive the headphone drivers. At worst, in such a scenario the bypass circuit might alter the impedance.

That said, chances are the wireless headphones have high enough sensitivity that you don't get to the point where the built in amp is already clipping or is piling on distortion and noise, so if you don't listen any louder than that where the amp can sustain that output level with even less problems, chances are you won't hear the difference. It's like how a Camry and a BMW M5 won't feel too different on regular streets - you won't feel the V10's torque launching you immediately since you're not mashing the throttle, you won't be trying to overtake a 10-wheeler before you slam onto oncoming traffic, you're not really turning fast enough to feel the difference between a longer wheelbase RWD car vs a FWD with a 3.5L V6, etc.

I would also like to have a listen to some Sennheiser HD660s to compare the sound between wireless closed back an open wired.

Those are also drastically different drivers so what you'll hear isn't the difference between closed back wired vs wired open but PX vs HD660S. Also the HD660S is much lower sensitivity, higher impedance, and has zero attempts at noise isolation, so expect the latter to sound like it sucks, but not necessarily that it totally sucks.

Do you guys think there would be much difference or would it be minimal

Going back to the above example, using the HD660S like that (and not with something like a Darkvoice DV336se for example) is like buying the Munich cab version of a the 5-series thinking the 4cyl 518 approximates the experience of an M5 as what an HD660S is really like, and then comparing it to something like a Civic RS hatch which is kind of like the PX driven well by its built in amp.

 

[jjjm]

Interesting. I question if my phone is playing aptx hd or just aptx. For that matter is it playing the higher sample rate and bits per sample. It appears to me that my phone is not playing aptx hd or higher sample rates. If that is the case wouldn't a DAP provide consistent aptx hd with the higher sampling?

 

[Redcarmoose]

You see how it all works.....you get a new set of headphones. Then curiosity starts tugging.......Next thing you know your buying $2000 interconnection cables made with gold and silver. Welcome back!

The biggest problem to start with is the Apple Phone BT transfer protocol AAC. As soon as Apple sends LDAC all will be great.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Interesting. I question if my phone is playing aptx hd or just aptx. For that matter is it playing the higher sample rate and bits per sample. It appears to me that my phone is not playing aptx hd or higher sample rates. If that is the case wouldn't a DAP provide consistent aptx hd with the higher sampling?

It's not going to matter as much as when you hook up a wired headphone to the phone then to the DAP.