iPurifier3 vs DDC
May 30, 2022 at 7:55 AM Post #31 of 93
I'll take measurements over wax poetics any time of the day. Glad that we have at least some sober, real engineer heads like Amir in this hobby.

There are more people in the field that measures and actually listens to stuff. Amir is not engineer and has no knowledge in that field. I know he doesn't listen to music because his headphone reviews are very invalid. It's shame when folks become fanboys and blindly takes his opinion as absolute truth.

Even though USB interface is very popular it is the most difficult one to implement correctly and people claiming DDC's as snake oil, doesn't get the purpose of such devices. The best route is to go with clean source and it's easy to test without spending much and using something like pi2aes via I2S to dac against your PC's USB, but fanboys don't bother because Amir knows everything
 
May 31, 2022 at 5:56 AM Post #32 of 93
Unfortunately, experience has shown me that DAC measurements do not correlate with sound quality (a common opinion among audiophiles).
Assuming that by “sound quality” you mean “fidelity”, then yes they do and of course they must, because converting a measurement is the only thing a DAC does. An individual’s perception and preferences of SQ/fidelity is an entirely different thing though. Unfortunately, despite this being a fundamental fact established over a century ago, most audiophiles don’t know or understand this difference, which is why what you stated is “a common opinion among audiophiles”.
The Topping D50S, which I purchased based on solid measurements, sounded awful to me.
Assuming those “solid measurements” were correct, if it sounded awful to you, then either you were doing something wrong with the way you used it or your personal perception is that high/audibly perfect fidelity sounds awful to you. Although that preference is generally rare, it appears less rare in the audiophile community.
One thing I will not abide is a device that makes music sound lifeless and boring.
A DAC has no idea what “lifeless and boring” means or any way of making music sound lifeless and boring. That’s a human perception and DACs obviously don’t have any human perception. The vast majority of DACs just do what their name indicates, convert digital data to an analogue signal (transparently).
ASR rated the Schiit Modi 3 higher than the Yggdrasil, which is just a bad joke.
There are a lot of “bad jokes” in the audiophile community. It’s amazing how a high price point and a lot of marketing apparently makes it impossible for many audiophiles to recognise a bad joke.
Music is extremely dynamic and complex, with many, many sine waves occurring simultaneously and interacting with each other.
No, it’s not. Sure, there are many sine waves interacting and causing a “waveform” but it’s a relatively simple waveform with a rather limited number of sine waves. There are signals far more complex in this regard than music, white noise for example. And, music recordings are not very dynamic, let alone extremely dynamic. Virtually all of them are just 60dB or less.
Sorry bud, you can't judge sound quality based on a static test.
Again, if SQ = fidelity, then yes we can and have been able to for over 80 years. However, if you’re talking about your personal perception/judgement/preferences then obviously not. Obviously we’re objectively measuring the audio performance of a DAC, not the performance of your personal brain/perception.
I know he doesn't listen to music because his headphone reviews are very invalid.
How are they invalid? Clearly Amir does listen to music.
It's shame when folks become fanboys and blindly takes his opinion as absolute truth.
It’s a shame when anyone takes subjective opinions as absolute truth. Obviously though, that is less true of objective measurements.
The best route is to go with clean source and it's easy to test without spending much and using something like pi2aes via I2S to dac against your PC's USB, but fanboys don't bother because Amir knows everything
The best route, or at least no worse than any other route, is just to use USB as is, with a half decent DAC. Most of us “don’t bother” with silly conversions because we have half decent DACs (or better), nothing to do with what Amir knows or doesn’t.

G
 
May 31, 2022 at 8:54 AM Post #33 of 93
How are they invalid? Clearly Amir does listen to music.

It’s a shame when anyone takes subjective opinions as absolute truth. Obviously though, that is less true of objective measurements.

The best route, or at least no worse than any other route, is just to use USB as is, with a half decent DAC. Most of us “don’t bother” with silly conversions because we have half decent DACs (or better), nothing to do with what Amir knows or doesn’t.

G

Look at his HP's reviews... he states that HD650 is perfectly fine in bass region while Focal Clear lacks there. Anyone who listened to these HP's would disagree with him as Clear smokes Sennheisers by a large margin. Further he states that Clear driver clips in his normal listening levels! He admitted many times that he listens to music loud, but this is hearing damaging levels. I've heard many HP's that he reviewed and not surprised that his impressions can go to trash bin as you can't listen properly on such a high volume. These type of folks don't care much for music and looks for a short excitement, jacks the volume bar as much as their brain can handle and then out for a break...

USB is good if the source is clean, but many of us sits with PC's/Laptops as I personally need that flexibility to go through such a variety of streaming services. That's when DDC comes in handy as you get quite a large improvement from these half decent dacs. DAC designers strongly suggests to use I2S if possible and it is not that expensive to try. Pi2aes + cheapest DAC with I2S vs PC sub to DAC, but who am I to teach you gregorio, you are the expert in every audio field. Shine your knowledge upon us, poor peasants and do not forget to mention how vinyl sucks and apple dongle is best thing invented, even if it falls out of context :)
 
May 31, 2022 at 9:12 AM Post #34 of 93
There are more people in the field that measures and actually listens to stuff. Amir is not engineer and has no knowledge in that field. I know he doesn't listen to music because his headphone reviews are very invalid. It's shame when folks become fanboys and blindly takes his opinion as absolute truth.
LOL! Audio "Science" Review: The definitive guide to mediocre sound.
Even though USB interface is very popular it is the most difficult one to implement correctly and people claiming DDC's as snake oil, doesn't get the purpose of such devices. The best route is to go with clean source and it's easy to test without spending much and using something like pi2aes via I2S to dac against your PC's USB, but fanboys don't bother because Amir knows everything
I agree about the source. Aside from the Pi2aes, there are many others that handily beat a non-specialized computer, e.g. Zen Stream, microRendu, SMS-200, etc., etc.
 
May 31, 2022 at 9:12 AM Post #35 of 93
… He admitted many times that he listens to music loud, but this is hearing damaging levels. I've heard many HP's that he reviewed and not surprised that his impressions can go to trash bin as you can't listen properly on such a high volume.
Yes, you can listen properly at a very high levels but not for long and it depends on the music. I don’t see how any of what you stated demonstrates that he doesn’t listen to music?
USB is good if the source is clean, but many of us sits with PC's/Laptops as I personally need that flexibility to go through such a variety of streaming services. That's when DDC comes in handy as you get quite a large improvement from these half decent dacs.
Yes, I “sit with PC’s/Laptops”, they are never clean and the half decent (and better than half decent) DACs I’ve used exhibit no improvement at all, let alone “quite a large improvement”, because they’re competently designed to be run from PC’s/Laptops. The only logical conclusion is that either you’re just imagining this improvement or do not have a half decent DAC.
… but who am I to teach you gregorio, you are the expert in every audio field.
Who indeed, seeing as you do not know me or apparently have any idea of what I know! A personal attack is both against the rules here and indicates such a weak argument that you need to resort to insults.

G
 
May 31, 2022 at 9:15 AM Post #36 of 93
Assuming that by “sound quality” you mean “fidelity”, then yes they do and of course they must, because converting a measurement is the only thing a DAC does. An individual’s perception and preferences of SQ/fidelity is an entirely different thing though. Unfortunately, despite this being a fundamental fact established over a century ago, most audiophiles don’t know or understand this difference, which is why what you stated is “a common opinion among audiophiles”.

Assuming those “solid measurements” were correct, if it sounded awful to you, then either you were doing something wrong with the way you used it or your personal perception is that high/audibly perfect fidelity sounds awful to you. Although that preference is generally rare, it appears less rare in the audiophile community.

A DAC has no idea what “lifeless and boring” means or any way of making music sound lifeless and boring. That’s a human perception and DACs obviously don’t have any human perception. The vast majority of DACs just do what their name indicates, convert digital data to an analogue signal (transparently).

There are a lot of “bad jokes” in the audiophile community. It’s amazing how a high price point and a lot of marketing apparently makes it impossible for many audiophiles to recognise a bad joke.

No, it’s not. Sure, there are many sine waves interacting and causing a “waveform” but it’s a relatively simple waveform with a rather limited number of sine waves. There are signals far more complex in this regard than music, white noise for example. And, music recordings are not very dynamic, let alone extremely dynamic. Virtually all of them are just 60dB or less.

Again, if SQ = fidelity, then yes we can and have been able to for over 80 years. However, if you’re talking about your personal perception/judgement/preferences then obviously not. Obviously we’re objectively measuring the audio performance of a DAC, not the performance of your personal brain/perception.

How are they invalid? Clearly Amir does listen to music.

It’s a shame when anyone takes subjective opinions as absolute truth. Obviously though, that is less true of objective measurements.

The best route, or at least no worse than any other route, is just to use USB as is, with a half decent DAC. Most of us “don’t bother” with silly conversions because we have half decent DACs (or better), nothing to do with what Amir knows or doesn’t.

G
I'm not getting into another death spiral with you, it's just a waste of time. You already know everything. I'll take John Westlake's word and my own experience and move on.
 
May 31, 2022 at 9:17 AM Post #37 of 93
I'm not getting into another death spiral with you, it's just a waste of time. You already know everything. I'll take John Westlake's word and my own experience and move on.

That is a very smart decision
 
May 31, 2022 at 10:52 AM Post #38 of 93
I'm not getting into another death spiral with you, it's just a waste of time.
Then don’t, I’m certainly not forcing you to argue against the facts!
You already know everything.
I don’t need to know everything, just a few facts established many years ago.
I'll take John Westlake's word and my own experience and move on.
Wow, hardly surprising there’s so much snake oil in the audiophile world. I’ll take a few fundamental facts and some simple to take objective measurements over the word of someone trying to sell something.
That is a very smart decision
It is, if you want to promote snake oil! Otherwise, everyone else would call that an very gullible decision.

G
 
May 31, 2022 at 11:32 AM Post #39 of 93
Wow, hardly surprising there’s so much snake oil in the audiophile world. I’ll take a few fundamental facts and some simple to take objective measurements over the word of someone trying to sell something.

It is, if you want to promote snake oil! Otherwise, everyone else would call that an very gullible decision.

G
Sorry we know nothing. DDC is another glowing box serving no audible improvements in any digital chain. Thanks a lot for your very knowledgable inputs and have a nice day
 
May 31, 2022 at 11:38 AM Post #40 of 93
Sorry we know nothing. DDC is another glowing box serving no audible improvements in any digital chain. Thanks a lot for your very knowledgable inputs and have a nice day

The bolded text is true in the vast majority of implementations. No need for these types of black boxes unless you have hard evidence of an actual issue that needs resolution.
 
May 31, 2022 at 12:02 PM Post #41 of 93
The bolded text is true in the vast majority of implementations. No need for these types of black boxes unless you have hard evidence of an actual issue that needs resolution.

Snakeoil is stuff that serves no purpose. In that regard ground loop and usb noise doesn't exist from PC. I think I'll just learn to ignore buzzing noise with my sensitive IEM's and call it a day
 
May 31, 2022 at 12:18 PM Post #42 of 93
Snakeoil is stuff that serves no purpose. In that regard ground loop and usb noise doesn't exist from PC. I think I'll just learn to ignore buzzing noise with my sensitive IEM's and call it a day

I'd rather solve a ground loop issue than add yet another unnecessary device to remediate it after the source. The reports of other "USB Noise" don't usually include evidence of said noise, let alone an identification of the root cause/solution.

But if you are worried about USB Noise, any $15 powered USB hub will provide the necessary isolation - again, no need for pricey custom solutions.
 
May 31, 2022 at 12:29 PM Post #43 of 93
Snakeoil is stuff that serves no purpose.
No it’s not. Thousands of people bought snake oil back in the day, you think they bought it for no purpose and then complained when it didn’t do anything?
In that regard ground loop and usb noise doesn't exist from PC.
Of course it does, what PC doesn’t produce noise/interference on it’s USB port? As digital data transfer inherently eliminates noise, a DAC has to be incompetently designed if it allows audible levels of noise to contaminate it’s output.
I think I'll just learn to ignore buzzing noise with my sensitive IEM's and call it a day
Either you’re imagining it or your USB DAC is incompetently designed (as computer USB ports are pretty much always noisy). The solution to this effectively faulty DAC should be to replace it with one that isn’t faulty. Only in the audiophile world would someone apparently spend even more money on another bit of kit to do what a cheap, not faulty DAC already does! That’s snake oil!

G
 
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May 31, 2022 at 12:55 PM Post #44 of 93
Look at his HP's reviews... he states that HD650 is perfectly fine in bass region while Focal Clear lacks there. Anyone who listened to these HP's would disagree with him as Clear smokes Sennheisers by a large margin.
Can't agree on "smokes", not with stock pads, here's the measurements to back up.
1654016184895.png
 
May 31, 2022 at 1:12 PM Post #45 of 93
I'd rather solve a ground loop issue than add yet another unnecessary device to remediate it after the source. The reports of other "USB Noise" don't usually include evidence of said noise, let alone an identification of the root cause/solution.

But if you are worried about USB Noise, any $15 powered USB hub will provide the necessary isolation - again, no need for pricey custom solutions.

USB hub is not solving any noise or sound degradation issues to me. I'm totally with the idea that less is more and would propt for all in one box solution like Atom HE, but I'm a bit sucker for certain streaming platforms with electronic music.

Macbook to DAC is nowhere near to such all in one setup, but gets way closer with added DDC

Can't agree on "smokes", not with stock pads, here's the measurements to back up.

I would suggest you to just go and listen to both of these HP's instead of blindly defending Amir

Clear vs HD650 .png
 

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