[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ry_goody Rio Karma is probably the best option as far as sound goes. FLAC, gapless and 5band EQ. Not to mention the karma is one of the cheapest ones and smallest in mass. But the thing that killed the karma for me was that it needed special drivers and software to put files and music on it. I need to transfer large files back and forth between home and school so being able to use it as a USB mass storage device was a must for me. So I went with the iRiver ihp-120, which is great in everway, no complaints. The iPod is only superior really if you: 1) Intend to use iTunes 2) simply cannot live without touch sensitive buttons and scroll wheel other than that the iRiver ihp and karma have it beat on every category -battery life -features (fm tuner and recording for the ihp) -format support -ability to transfer files without special drivers (ihp only) -5 band eq and gapless (karma only)

Good Points! Although what is slightly ironic, is that while you mention the benefits of iTunes, Rio's software is the closest I've seen to offering that same type of seamlessness (albeight without the music store), but yeah, it does the synchronizations, looks at what you haven't listened to recently, and overall works VERY cleanly, no buggy software (*cough* sony *cough* creative *cough cough*) Anyway though, the forthcoming USB MSC support will be a huge benefit for many people, personally it isn't a real big deal to me, but given the number of times it is mentioned, I am definetely not in the majority.

 

[wctkdman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg Good Points! Although what is slightly ironic, is that while you mention the benefits of iTunes, Rio's software is the closest I've seen to offering that same type of seamlessness (albeight without the music store), but yeah, it does the synchronizations, looks at what you haven't listened to recently, and overall works VERY cleanly, no buggy software (*cough* sony *cough* creative *cough cough*) Anyway though, the forthcoming USB MSC support will be a huge benefit for many people, personally it isn't a real big deal to me, but given the number of times it is mentioned, I am definetely not in the majority.

USB MSC? What is that?

 

[raaj]

I don't know why people are just striking off the Zen, but every single player out there has its share of problems..

The iPod has its DRM poo-poo, and piss poor battery life, and is costly as hell to boot.

The iHP sounds great 'as per the majority of opinions'.. but you pay a premium for all those features.. not exactly everyone has that kind of money..

Rio Karma has its share of 'chinks in its casing' in the form of HDD woes..

The Zen has its problematic headphone out.. but has the most upgradeability and user-serviceable options than any other player.

I don't know why people say the Zen is inconveniently bulky.. perhaps it is just me, but the Zen is only a little bigger than the iPod, and the iHP.. Maybe, it's just me.. I carry my NJB3 everywhere..

But SQ-wise, I have heard the iPod and the NJB3 (by impication, the Zen), and I don't think you would go wrong if you chose either.

The Zen will definitely offer a great value in terms of SQ, HDD capacity, upgradeability and user-servicibility.. Instead of spending ~500 bucks on a 40GB iPod, I can buy a 40GB Zen, upgrade it with a 80GB HDD, and maybe use or sell off the 40GB drive. At the end, I'll still have a handful of bucks left to buy some good CDs or such stuff, and the sound will not be any worse than any other player out there..


Just my humble opinion, not meant to say I am better than anyone or something like that..

 

[doctorjuggles]

"other than that the iRiver ihp and karma have it beat on every category
-battery life
-features (fm tuner and recording for the ihp)
-format support
-ability to transfer files without special drivers (ihp only)
-5 band eq and gapless (karma only)"

I disagree. Why does everyone say that when the other players clearly don't support .aac, AIFF and AL? It has lots of format support, just different to the others. If you need ogg, then iPod worse for you. If you want aac, then iPod better for you, no? It still has quite a few supported codecs though.

"The iPod has its DRM poo-poo, and piss poor battery life, and is costly as hell to boot."
I agree it's too expensive, but it doesn't have DRM pooh-pooh. You can very easily buy non-DRM mp3s and play them on iPod. iTunes-bought music has DRM issues, but then so does mycokemusic (wma) and a host of other pay-download sites. That's got nothing to do with the fact that it's iPod

 

[RHMMMM]

I love my Karma. I couldn't handle the iPod with the chrome-like back. I like to keep my stuff perfect and that back got scratched up sooooo easily. I hated that plus its limited battery life compared to the Karma and others (not to mention limits in the format options).

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wctkdman USB MSC? What is that?

USB Mass Storage Controller....ie it shows up as a logical drive.

 

[wctkdman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raaj I don't know why people are just striking off the Zen, but every single player out there has its share of problems.. The iPod has its DRM poo-poo, and piss poor battery life, and is costly as hell to boot. The iHP sounds great 'as per the majority of opinions'.. but you pay a premium for all those features.. not exactly everyone has that kind of money.. Rio Karma has its share of 'chinks in its casing' in the form of HDD woes.. The Zen has its problematic headphone out.. but has the most upgradeability and user-serviceable options than any other player. I don't know why people say the Zen is inconveniently bulky.. perhaps it is just me, but the Zen is only a little bigger than the iPod, and the iHP.. Maybe, it's just me.. I carry my NJB3 everywhere.. But SQ-wise, I have heard the iPod and the NJB3 (by impication, the Zen), and I don't think you would go wrong if you chose either. The Zen will definitely offer a great value in terms of SQ, HDD capacity, upgradeability and user-servicibility.. Instead of spending ~500 bucks on a 40GB iPod, I can buy a 40GB Zen, upgrade it with a 80GB HDD, and maybe use or sell off the 40GB drive. At the end, I'll still have a handful of bucks left to buy some good CDs or such stuff, and the sound will not be any worse than any other player out there.. Just my humble opinion, not meant to say I am better than anyone or something like that..

well, aside from its flaws, the iriver is now 299$ at newegg w/shipping, so it isn't cost too much compared to the rest of the mp3 players around. Even if you get the Dell DJ which is one of the cheapest, it is 249-279 plus tax would be around 270-299, and sometimes there is also shipping to take into account.

I already posted my thoughts on the rest...but I'll post them again:
karma: too thick
zen: too big
dell: good
iriver: good
phillips: didn't look at it...but dapreview.com preferred the iriver so...
ipod: expensive and batt life is poor

 

[diefree]

I'm not saying that the Karma is *****, if you read my post, it would tell you that I said that all of the rest of Rio's products are *****, excluding the Karma.

The Karma technologically, is the best available right now. Which, I am saying is sorry considering the poor build quality of Rio Corporation in general. What's more displeasing, is that it's actually part of a bigger conglomerate in Denon - Marantz, which the latter of which is know globally for a generally good build quality.

I WAS cutting Rio some slack, thinking, "hey here's an American start up company, and they need to iron out the manufacturing process. Now, knowing they're a part of Denon - Marantz, it's simply entirely unacceptable that they are putting out such *****.

Hey, I'm not bagging on the Karma, I dig it overall, but don't even think of doing anything remotely athletic with it, and make sure your a techy so you can deal with all of the tech problems it has.

On a slightly more postive note, I just checked out the Iriver IHP at NewEgg, the 20GB version on sale this weekend only for $299, which I would NEVER EVER buy because it can't do FLAC. But, I do like the layout. It seems to have the most promise for athletic use.

I am a downhill skier, and I could easily see myself storing the bulk of the device deep within my parka or daypack, and then just have the little control module dangling out of the sleeve.

You would think some company could come along, preferably an American one, that basically creates a 10GB flash drive with line outs. That way we could update firmware, bios, and general playback capabilities easily.

-DF

 

[skitlets]

actually, the 15 gig dell is 199 + tax and i think free shipping, which makes it one of the cheapest DAPs, and since i love in california, i still have 2 pay tax for newegg

, and i guess another plus for the ipod is its easy navigation.

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by diefree I'm not saying that the Karma is *****, if you read my post, it would tell you that I said that all of the rest of Rio's products are *****, excluding the Karma. The Karma technologically, is the best available right now. Which, I am saying is sorry considering the poor build quality of Rio Corporation in general. What's more displeasing, is that it's actually part of a bigger conglomerate in Denon - Marantz, which the latter of which is know globally for a generally good build quality. I WAS cutting Rio some slack, thinking, "hey here's an American start up company, and they need to iron out the manufacturing process. Now, knowing they're a part of Denon - Marantz, it's simply entirely unacceptable that they are putting out such *****. Hey, I'm not bagging on the Karma, I dig it overall, but don't even think of doing anything remotely athletic with it, and make sure your a techy so you can deal with all of the tech problems it has. On a slightly more postive note, I just checked out the Iriver IHP at NewEgg, the 20GB version on sale this weekend only for $299, which I would NEVER EVER buy because it can't do FLAC. But, I do like the layout. It seems to have the most promise for athletic use. I am a downhill skier, and I could easily see myself storing the bulk of the device deep within my parka or daypack, and then just have the little control module dangling out of the sleeve. You would think some company could come along, preferably an American one, that basically creates a 10GB flash drive with line outs. That way we could update firmware, bios, and general playback capabilities easily. -DF

maybe, but in all fairness, that is not necessarily an overall assessment of everyone's experience. My Karma is going on 8 months at this point, I have had no physical problems with it, the few problems I did have were firmware related and were fixed in November, no problems since. I definetely DO NOT baby my Karma, I take it snowboarding, biking, I toss it into the bottom of my backpack, and it has fallen over 4 feet onto ice without skipping a beat.

I am not trying to suggest that all Karmas are this durable, as there are enough broken scroll wheels out there to suggest the contrary. However, it is doing a disservice to suggest that all are that breakable and fragile, when in reality they aren't.

 

[pnrgi]

i droped my ipod down a flight of stairs. It was very sad. but then i picked it up and it worked,

. i think the ipod has the best build quailty of all of the 4. that was one of the reason i bought one, becasue i treat my stuff like crap, always droping it, and spilling things on it. im a big klutz my ipod has seen a ton of fall over the year i have had it, and it got some soda spilled on it, but thanks to it not having buttons on the front it was easy to clean, and it still works after all the falls. im very happy with it. my rio (the old one) would take one fall, and the battery cage would break, or the lcd would break or the button did once. it was way to fragile for me. but that could just be me.

 

[diefree]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg maybe, but in all fairness, that is not necessarily an overall assessment of everyone's experience. My Karma is going on 8 months at this point, I have had no physical problems with it, the few problems I did have were firmware related and were fixed in November, no problems since. I definetely DO NOT baby my Karma, I take it snowboarding, biking, I toss it into the bottom of my backpack, and it has fallen over 4 feet onto ice without skipping a beat. I am not trying to suggest that all Karmas are this durable, as there are enough broken scroll wheels out there to suggest the contrary. However, it is doing a disservice to suggest that all are that breakable and fragile, when in reality they aren't.

All I can say is that you must be much braver than I am when it comes to portable electronics. I mean, unless I had a waterproof, shockproof external case for the Karma, I would never take it snowboarding. Then again, you'd never catch me on a snowboard anyways.

There's a company which makes cool cases for the Ipod, called Vaja Cases (link)... Maybe someday they'll make Karma cases. Someone should send them an E-mail.

 

[pic9809]

my (biased) vote for the ipod b/c of (i) ease-of-use, (ii) itunes compatibility, and (iii) style

 

[Jordanus]

my vote goes to iPod. it is thinner, narrower, and only wieghs 0.1 ounce more than the Karma. it is more durable.
and looks the BY FARRRRR. so sleek, so cool, so simple.
iTunes rocks too. it has good EQ, the stock headphones rock!, i just got the new inears which kick arse too.

cya


ps. the Vaja cases are nothing compared to the iSkin Evo's.
iSkin Evo

 

[shuurajou]

Nobody seems to talk much about the iRiver iHP's audio quality in comparison to the iPod's. I don't know if this is relevant but ign.com's review of the iPod pretty much spat on the audio quality of it.