[wctkdman]

I think the reason ppl are discounting the Zen is because of it's size. It is huge compared to the rest of he bunch you wrote about. Also, I have heard that there are problems with it's headphone out being faulty...

 

[PedigreeE]

its the njb3 thats huge, the zen is small but has a bad headphone jack i believe.

 

[wctkdman]

Well, IMO it is huge when compared to the rest...it seems like it has nearly double the volume. Also one thing I forgot about was the faceplate, it seems really weak. I went to compusa to check one out and the faceplate would not stay on, it seemed really weak to me.

 

[waveriderkc]

I would definitely say the buy and return method might be the best choice of action for you Pedigree. That way you can find out for yourself which DAP is best for you because there are going to be people telling you to go every which way. Each player will have its strengths and weaknesses, and you need to decide which features matter most to you, and there's no better way than trial and error.

 

[gorman]

Look at my signature, look at my cans, look at my DAP. 'Nuff said...

 

[PedigreeE]

Ok, well now the ihp and the zen are out. Let the battle of the iPod and Karma begin! Please do not hesitate to reply with your opinions!

 

[pnrgi]

Well, i had the first rio ever made. the pmp300 or what ever it was. it broke 3 times. then the third time it broke, which wasnt my fault yet agian, rio didnt want to replace it, they told me that i broke it. so it wasnt under coverage. well what ever the case maybe, a company like that, that makes there products so crapy that they break, and then doesnt want to hounor there warrenty, will never get my money again.

anyway. I bought an ipod. I love it, it has become my life. If i were to lose it i might die. anyway i think the ipod is the best.

 

[Lil_JV]

Quote:

Originally Posted by austonia Karma. comparable to the others in SQ but with a superior EQ and RCA line-outs on the base.

LISTEN TO THIS GUY!!!! He knows what he is talking about. If you want a simple cool looking player then go for the ipod. If you want a fully loaded player with great sound quality(FLAC baby!) then go for the Karma. I have used the Zen, iPod and Karma and ended up with the Karma in the end.

JV.

 

[urinsane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnrgi Well, i had the first rio ever made. the pmp300 or what ever it was. it broke 3 times. then the third time it broke, which wasnt my fault yet agian, rio didnt want to replace it, they told me that i broke it. so it wasnt under coverage. well what ever the case maybe, a company like that, that makes there products so crapy that they break, and then doesnt want to hounor there warrenty, will never get my money again.

I think someone bought out the old Rio, and that the new company is supposed to be better when it comes to customer service.

 

[Edvard_Grieg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by urinsane I think someone bought out the old Rio, and that the new company is supposed to be better when it comes to customer service.

Originally owned by Diamond Multimedia, sold to SonicBlue (yes they were ****ty etc etc), and then recently acquired by D&M Holdings (Denon and Marantz). Rio is part of DNNA (Denon Networks North America) along with Escient and ReplayTV. So, from a position of "are they going anywhere?", highly doubtful with Denon's pockets. It is worth noting that initially there were some customer service issues, however, based on recent reports, things are dramatically changing for the better. Further, there have been fewer HD failure reports, so my guess would be that something is being. In either situation, it is a Hitatchi hard drive (made by/with IBM) which are known for having high failure rates (IBM Deskstar 75GXP anyone?). Anyway, the Rio dev team is actually looking at ways to circumvent the HD problems through a firmware hack etc. I think the fact that the Rio dev team actively participates over at Riovolution is almost incentive enough in and of itself to go that route. aside from FLAC and a 5-band parametric EQ

 

[Big D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg Originally owned by Diamond Multimedia, sold to SonicBlue (yes they were ****ty etc etc), and then recently acquired by D&M Holdings (Denon and Marantz). Rio is part of DNNA (Denon Networks North America) along with Escient and ReplayTV. So, from a position of "are they going anywhere?", highly doubtful with Denon's pockets. It is worth noting that initially there were some customer service issues, however, based on recent reports, things are dramatically changing for the better. Further, there have been fewer HD failure reports, so my guess would be that something is being. In either situation, it is a Hitatchi hard drive (made by/with IBM) which are known for having high failure rates (IBM Deskstar 75GXP anyone?). Anyway, the Rio dev team is actually looking at ways to circumvent the HD problems through a firmware hack etc. I think the fact that the Rio dev team actively participates over at Riovolution is almost incentive enough in and of itself to go that route. aside from FLAC and a 5-band parametric EQ

PedigreeE

Rio are definitely closest to the perfect DAP at present. If you consider playing music and portability the main issues.

I think any portable device of this size and cost should have a fully functional LCD remote. This is the only reason I would not sell up my iHP at present. Do people really want to get out their £300 DAP in the street and wave it around? I would be very surprised to see any of the next gen players - 4G iPod , Karma 2, etc. not to have an LCD remote. The iPod's remote is disgustingly overpriced and about as useless as a chocolate coffee mug! Volume control could be done with an in-line attenuator. Better off just reaching into your pocket to operate FWD / REV / PAUSE. £29 with crappy headphones is the greatest rip-off in the iPod range and it's up against some stiff competition.

If only Rio axed Hitachi and moved over to Toshiba then a 40Gb option would be in the offing. I suspect with newer battery and low power curcuit technology that in a couple of years we will be buying players with 100Gb+ storage space and all our music encoded losslessly.

From what you say you should get the Karma with extended warranty if you can live without the iPod's virtually useless remote. Your UE-10 Pros deserve the 5 band parametric EQ the Karma offers plus the FLAC option would be great for those extra special albums (personally I couldn't audibly tell the difference between Ogg q6.5 and wav for any off 50 tracks I tested on my iHP, though some can). I think Edvard has hit the nail on the head. There are many happy Karma users and I think you should be one too!

 

[ry_goody]

Rio Karma is probably the best option as far as sound goes. FLAC, gapless and 5band EQ. Not to mention the karma is one of the cheapest ones and smallest in mass. But the thing that killed the karma for me was that it needed special drivers and software to put files and music on it. I need to transfer large files back and forth between home and school so being able to use it as a USB mass storage device was a must for me. So I went with the iRiver ihp-120, which is great in everway, no complaints.

The iPod is only superior really if you:
1) Intend to use iTunes
2) simply cannot live without touch sensitive buttons and scroll wheel

other than that the iRiver ihp and karma have it beat on every category
-battery life
-features (fm tuner and recording for the ihp)
-format support
-ability to transfer files without special drivers (ihp only)
-5 band eq and gapless (karma only)

 

[gorman]

Developers have pretty much announced that mass storage capabilities (the ability to transfer files without special drivers) for the Karma will be coming in a future firmware release. And so far they've always mantained their promises.

 

[PedigreeE]

Wow, thanks for the help everyone!

 

[wctkdman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ry_goody Rio Karma is probably the best option as far as sound goes. FLAC, gapless and 5band EQ. Not to mention the karma is one of the cheapest ones and smallest in mass. But the thing that killed the karma for me was that it needed special drivers and software to put files and music on it. I need to transfer large files back and forth between home and school so being able to use it as a USB mass storage device was a must for me. So I went with the iRiver ihp-120, which is great in everway, no complaints. The iPod is only superior really if you: 1) Intend to use iTunes 2) simply cannot live without touch sensitive buttons and scroll wheel other than that the iRiver ihp and karma have it beat on every category -battery life -features (fm tuner and recording for the ihp) -format support -ability to transfer files without special drivers (ihp only) -5 band eq and gapless (karma only)

I also discounted the karma, but for a different reason...and that is because it is too thick. I have an older minidisc player/recorder that is nearly the same size (Sharp MD-722 if anyone is interested), and it got annoying to walk around with that thing making a bulge in my pocket. If it were in a "tall and thin" form factor, I would have jumped on it without a second thought.