[Inks]

if anything the cowon rolls off while the iphone stays linear. Iphones and Itouches actually differ quite a bit with the 3GS and 4 having better performance than any Touch. 
 
J3 doesn't necessarily sound better and if anything it's performance is average when no enhancements are done. With the enhancements a lot of people tend to label them as audiophile quality when it is only coloring the sound that was intended. 

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

if anything the cowon rolls off while the iphone stays linear. Iphones and Itouches actually differ quite a bit with the 3GS and 4 having better performance than any Touch. 
 
J3 doesn't necessarily sound better and if anything it's performance is average when no enhancements are done. With the enhancements a lot of people tend to label them as audiophile quality when it is only coloring the sound that was intended. 

Wow that's interesting. It's just that so many people here seem to prefer the J3 over the iPod Touch that I thought it had a better audio quality.
 
 

 

[Brooko]

The only way to really know is to compare them yourself (if possible).  While I haven't tried the J3, I did own an iAudio7 for quite a while.  It has the same BBE and EQ enhancements (maybe a generation older) - but was very well regarded as an excellent DAP for SQ.  I loved it while I had it.
 
I'll add at that point that although I'd never really tried much in the Apple line, I basically discarded them as 'mp3 players for the masses' - and smugly assumed that because I had a Cowon, I had a superior player.
 
Skip to late last year.  I had to cash some reward points (expiring), and one of the options was the iPod Touch 4 (32Gb).  Thought I'd try it - in the end glad I did.  ABing them side by side (flat/no EQ) - for me, the Touch sounded as good (if not better) than the Cowon.  Add in the wifi, bluetooth, available apps, gui etc - for me the Touch was better.  And this is especially so with the Equalizer app - at adds a decent parametric equalizer that was sorely missing.  I only ever use it on my SE425 IEM's to give them a touch more sparkle - but it makes a difference.
 
You will find fans on both sides Cowon/Apple who will claim the product they use is much better.  The secret IMO is to take more note of those who have actually owned both (there are a few on head-fi).
 
I put them both on a par SQ wise.
Cowon has slightly better EQ ability - but negated now by the Equalizer app.  The Cowon's also have better battery life, and expandable memory.  It also has support for more audio/video formats.
The iPod Touch G4 has wifi, better apps.  I find it's battery OK - and 32GB is fine for me using 256 AAC (currently have ~ 260 albums onboard).  If you use lossless (I did for a while) - you can use ALAC (simple transcode from FLAC).  The Touch also has a line-out, so you can bypass it's internal amp, and get a cleaner signal straight to a portable amp (the J3 doesn't).
 
But if most important thing is the sound - IMO it's a wash - both are very good DAPs.  Take your pick based on the other features.

 

[Inks]

Wholeheartedly agree with Brooko there^. I had them side by side as well and came to the same conclusions. If there's a player that sounds better flat it's the Touch but don't expect a huge improvement. If anything go by the strengths outside of sound as put together above by Brooko. 

 

[miceblue]

Quote:

The only way to really know is to compare them yourself (if possible).  While I haven't tried the J3, I did own an iAudio7 for quite a while.  It has the same BBE and EQ enhancements (maybe a generation older) - but was very well regarded as an excellent DAP for SQ.  I loved it while I had it.
 
I'll add at that point that although I'd never really tried much in the Apple line, I basically discarded them as 'mp3 players for the masses' - and smugly assumed that because I had a Cowon, I had a superior player.
 
Skip to late last year.  I had to cash some reward points (expiring), and one of the options was the iPod Touch 4 (32Gb).  Thought I'd try it - in the end glad I did.  ABing them side by side (flat/no EQ) - for me, the Touch sounded as good (if not better) than the Cowon.  Add in the wifi, bluetooth, available apps, gui etc - for me the Touch was better.  And this is especially so with the Equalizer app - at adds a decent parametric equalizer that was sorely missing.  I only ever use it on my SE425 IEM's to give them a touch more sparkle - but it makes a difference.
 
You will find fans on both sides Cowon/Apple who will claim the product they use is much better.  The secret IMO is to take more note of those who have actually owned both (there are a few on head-fi).
 
I put them both on a par SQ wise.
Cowon has slightly better EQ ability - but negated now by the Equalizer app.  The Cowon's also have better battery life, and expandable memory.  It also has support for more audio/video formats.
The iPod Touch G4 has wifi, better apps.  I find it's battery OK - and 32GB is fine for me using 256 AAC (currently have ~ 260 albums onboard).  If you use lossless (I did for a while) - you can use ALAC (simple transcode from FLAC).  The Touch also has a line-out, so you can bypass it's internal amp, and get a cleaner signal straight to a portable amp (the J3 doesn't).
 
But if most important thing is the sound - IMO it's a wash - both are very good DAPs.  Take your pick based on the other features.

I see. Thank you for the insight. I'm probably just going to wait until the second iteration of the D3 is released by Cowon whenever that is. Hopefully it will be more polished than the D3 hardware-wise. I'm trying to slowly shy away from my iPod Touch in the meantime. It's not a bad product or anything, just that there are a lot of features I, personally, do not use.
 

 

[loudspl]

The Touch 4G also allows you to use an external DAC like the CLAS (Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo) or the Fostex HP-P1 for the best possible sound to an external amp
 
Cowon players don't have that capability but they do have the advantage in size and portability vs. Touch 4G > DAC > Amp > IEM or cans
 
Some say you can amp the Cowons from headphone out and they sound fine

 

[caracara08]

i feel, having had the touch and now have the j3, that amping the j3 via HO and amping the touch via LOD is about the same. j3 without an amp and touch via HO without an amp and its not really that close to my ears.  although i do understand that amping the j3 is double amping and usually not a good idea. 

 

[Mad Max]

 
Quote:

i feel, having had the touch and now have the j3, that amping the j3 via HO and amping the touch via LOD is about the same. j3 without an amp and touch via HO without an amp and its not really that close to my ears.  although i do understand that amping the j3 is double amping and usually not a good idea. 

 
Quote:

... The J3's headphone out is basically perfect when driving an external amp (i.e. no load, or near-infinite load), ...

I don't see the issue.  You can add a really good amp or go ampless, whatever you want.

 

[caracara08]

it wasnt meant to be an issue. im saying, ppl will make a fuss about using the hO of the j3, im saying its good, as good as the LO of the ipod.  then you add the EQ (i know apple has an app for that too) but i think the j3 is a better mp3 player.  

 

[JimSmiley]

Don't mean to highjack, but my Rockboxed 5.5g is dying, and I need a new source. It's been a while since I've been in the market, and it seems things have changed. So if I get a 64 gb touch I can play all my .flac files and get a digital out or use a LOD and bypass the headphone amp?

 

[Dreamnine]

If I didn't already own an Android phone with attendant apps, I could see no reason for buying a J3 instead of an iPod touch for the same money.
 
Don't get me wrong, the J3 is good, but not worth £220 for the 32Gb good.

 

[planx]

If I didn't already own an Android phone with attendant apps, I could see no reason for buying a J3 instead of an iPod touch for the same money.
 
Don't get me wrong, the J3 is good, but not worth £220 for the 32Gb good.

Having both apple and cowon products, i think i have a bit of a bias towards cowon. Yes the j3 may cost more but you honestly get what you pay for. With apple you are paying a reasonable price but it also comes with its bads. first of all, iTunes. Opinion here but using iTunes is just a hassle. Also with cowons, its very simple. Open up your cowon device via ypur computer, open music, click and drag any music file (i use mp3 and flac only) and it's done. No checks, no conversions, just click and drag and unplug. Secondly reported fluctuations in battery life. Yet this is an opinon as well but practically every one of my friends have apple products. Many comlain about how their battery life is much much less than the amount listed on the apple site. This one friend complained so much that i borrowed his NEW iTouch fully charged. On purpose i tried to use the screen as little as possible in order to save battery life. Playing music only, i managed 16 hours.. My cowon d2? A good 40+. I'm sorry for bashing on apple so much but i really think cowons are better products and a better company. Like i said earlier, these are my opinions

 

[goodvibes]

For me, The Touch 3 is the best of the apple lot but the amp has a highish output impedance so it can vary a bit by earphone. Line out is excellent.

 

[my2crazy]

The EQu app for the apple players is very nice, but not compatible with 2g or older players. Also, I read somewhere that it may not run on a 3g perfectly. There are other apps for EQ, but they seem not as nice. I have used EQu on my wife's iphone 4 and I love it. I tested out the j3 and c2 and was pretty impressed, but I think if you are running an amp with the iphone 4 and using the EQu app it is probably pretty nice sound wise, I will post something about it once my amp comes in.
 
Oh and the Itouch 4 costs more than a J3 by a little bit where I shop.

 

[dbdynsty25]

EQu is also not compatible with any remote control apps...like headphones.  You can't advance songs or play or pause with the line remotes like you can with the built in player making it pretty useless when you're out and about.  At least with the J3, there are buttons that you can enable when it's in your pocket so you don't have to take it out and unlock it to advance songs.  Big advantage to the J3 there.