[slaters70]

Completed my iOS4 upgrade on the Touch (2/3G, they are the same machine), and it worked perfectly. I do hear more pleasing sound when using the EQ presents (bass, treble boost, some of the others), but my acoustic setting seems worse for some reason. I don't care much. But the bass boost sounds great with both the HD RE-Zeros I have on hand (review pair) and the Ety MC5. They are similar IEMs, and both require some bottom boost to sound best. Thanks for the thread. Glad I checked Apple's site to learn I could get the OS update for my Touch.

 

[DeezNutzSquared]

I guess i'm in the minority here, yes I find the clipping/distortion issues have been fixed, however the EQ now sucks arse:
 
The problem with the new EQ presets is that Apple decided to tackle their iPod EQ distortion/clipping issues by completely changing how they implement an EQ;  Instead of BOOSTING and REDUCING frequencies in specific areas, the new EQ presets ONLY REDUCES frequencies.

So for example in the older firmwares (and in iTunes), when you choose the "Treble Booster" preset, the upper-range, high frequency bands would be boosted, however the low and mid-range bands would remain at a netural/flat level. This obviously results in the upper bands being boosted, offering added clarity (or harshness).

However.....In iOS 4.0, when you choose the "Treble Booster" preset, the higher frequency bands ARE NOT boosted whatsoever, but rather the low and mid-range bands ARE reduced, as a way to make it seem as though the high frequency was boosted...but any person with a decent pair of ears will notice that the audio/song does not sound like the treble frequencies were boosted.
 
The above can be said for the other presets..For example Bass Boost in iOS 4.0, does not boost the lower-end frequencies, but instead drastically reduces the upper-range frequencies.
 
This is how many 'crappy' software audio players implement EQs.
   
This method practically eliminates EQ distortion/clipping,  however IT DOES NOT boost any frequencies. I'm sorry, but an EQ that can only do -db steppings is a fake, useless POS of an EQ.

Hopefully Apple will go back to the old and "right" way of implementing an EQs in a future update..but knowing them that won't ever happen.
Alright, my rant is over, thanks for listening

 

[slaters70]

Funny you should say that, since I am wondering of that's how they messed up the acoustic setting. But the treble boost does sound like it is boosting the higher frequencies. And now, I have stopped using EQ altogether because I am using the Touch with a T3 amp and LOD, which is a much better SQ than HP out, at least with my phones.

 

[Buckster]

mmm I've never noticed any difference in sound quality from one firmware version to another on my Touch (2G)
 
but I'm half sure I can hear a difference with IOS4 - it sounds less shrill (it genuinely sounds "warmer" now) and less distorted - I'm not sure why .... EQ off as always
 
in fact it was sounding so good today I was half considering dumping the X series Sony I have.

 

[slaters70]

I just did the same (sold my X), but it was to pay for a J3 as my main on the go player. But I do agree, the 2G Touch I have (sold with the 3Gs but not really an upgrade as its the 8GB model) does sound warmer via HP and line out. If I was not getting the J3, I would spring for the 64GB Touch. This way, I can enjoy the virtues of both. I really felt the X was limiting, though it sounded good.

 

[semisight]

Quote:

...I'm sorry, but an EQ that can only do -db steppings is a fake, useless POS of an EQ.

Uh, why? You realize that most music is recorded so close to the digital upper bound that any increases results in serious clipping.
 
I bet that if Apple dropped the flat setting the 6 - 9 dB they dropped every other setting, it would sound amazing to you. Seriously, just turn up the volume, it's exactly the same.

 

[shigzeo]

I for one, prefer the new method (which is similar to replaygain). I have no idea yet if it is lossless or not, but according to my tests (I am trying to test every single setting), there are no lost dynamics or anything. In other words, this is better than Sony's presets which can top out.
 
The iPod doesn't have hardware EQ - if it did, we'd be having a different discussion. This new system is as good as it gets or will get on the iPod. I love it. Just boost your volume.
 
Some settings have lower gain, others have nearly the same gain as the 'OFF' setting. Overall, this is very good.
 
Acoustic used to be a simple loudness curve, but it's changed, indeed. Now, 'classical' is the loudness curve. Things are mixed and matched a bit, but with a bit of study, this could be amazing.
 
Quote:

I guess i'm in the minority here, yes I find the clipping/distortion issues have been fixed, however the EQ now sucks arse:
 
The problem with the new EQ presets is that Apple decided to tackle their iPod EQ distortion/clipping issues by completely changing how they implement an EQ;  Instead of BOOSTING and REDUCING frequencies in specific areas, the new EQ presets ONLY REDUCES frequencies.

So for example in the older firmwares (and in iTunes), when you choose the "Treble Booster" preset, the upper-range, high frequency bands would be boosted, however the low and mid-range bands would remain at a netural/flat level. This obviously results in the upper bands being boosted, offering added clarity (or harshness).

However.....In iOS 4.0, when you choose the "Treble Booster" preset, the higher frequency bands ARE NOT boosted whatsoever, but rather the low and mid-range bands ARE reduced, as a way to make it seem as though the high frequency was boosted...but any person with a decent pair of ears will notice that the audio/song does not sound like the treble frequencies were boosted.
 
The above can be said for the other presets..For example Bass Boost in iOS 4.0, does not boost the lower-end frequencies, but instead drastically reduces the upper-range frequencies.
 
This is how many 'crappy' software audio players implement EQs.
   
This method practically eliminates EQ distortion/clipping,  however IT DOES NOT boost any frequencies. I'm sorry, but an EQ that can only do -db steppings is a fake, useless POS of an EQ.

Hopefully Apple will go back to the old and "right" way of implementing an EQs in a future update..but knowing them that won't ever happen.
Alright, my rant is over, thanks for listening

 

[DeezNutzSquared]

Quote:

Uh, why? You realize that most music is recorded so close to the digital upper bound that any increases results in serious clipping.
 
I bet that if Apple dropped the flat setting the 6 - 9 dB they dropped every other setting, it would sound amazing to you. Seriously, just turn up the volume, it's exactly the same.

 

 
Glady, i'm still rather young, so I don't have large amounts of ear hair blocking the sounds waves from reaching my inner ear.
 
Sorry, but several of EQs are not exactly the same, the EQ frequencies have been altered (as noticed by shigzeo) the tonality of several, if not most, of the EQs have changed,  it's not a preamp issue (at least not on the iPod Touch 2G). 
 
I posted this on another forum, but this is how I feel the Treble Booster EQ in iOS 4 would look like:
 

 
...and Bass Booster EQ in iOS4:
 

 
 
I am 100% certain that in iOS 4.0 the EQ frequency steppings have been altered.
 
There may very well be negligible +db freq adjustments that remain in some of EQs (e.g in Treble Booster what might have been +6db 16kHz might now be +0.5db 16kHz)...simply "just turn(ing) up the volume" will not fix that.
 
Personally speaking, prior to iOS 4 I would frequently use the Acoustic preset, as it added a subtle +db increase in the lower frequency bands, and also to the upper frequency bands. In iOS4, the Acoustic preset sounds exactly like the Flat/Off setting, but with a -db drop in the vocal bands, and no hint of +db in upper frequencies.
 
shigzeo, are you ceratin that some presets have lower overall gain, and not just (what I believe is) a significant drop in mid-range or vocal frequency bands, making it appear as though the gain is lowered? 
 
I have a feeling that the iOS 4 EQ may be implemented differently between 3rd Generation devices (iPhone 3GS and iPod Touch 3G) and older devices, as their are reports that when using the EQ on a 3rd Gen device, the volume slider actually drops slightly on its own...this does not happen on an iPod Touch 2G when using the EQ.
 

In the end, I will have no choice but to assimilate , and I will gradually forget about how my iPod Touch used to sound when certain presets were used, but without a single preset that has any apparent +db frequency adjustments, the EQ will always be worse than it was before.
 
Peace

 

[semisight]

I agree that the OS 4 settings have been altered. After taking some time critically listening to the different settings on my iPod and going back and forth between your proposed settings on iTunes, I don't think your proposed settings are correct. That isn't to say that you aren't right about the alterations; I hear it too. I don't often use the treble boost setting with my RE0 so I can't say whether I feel this particular EQ option has improved or not.
 
Basically for your idea to be true there would have to be more mid emphasis, which I don't hear. In your settings the 1K-8K sliders are left high(er), which sound more forward than the iPod setting that IMO has recessed mids.
 
Hopefully someone else will test this too, I know how subjective this can be.
 
I had hoped that shigzeo was right. It would have made much more sense to just put in a uniform 6dB drop for all EQ settings and leave them otherwise intact. It would also mean minimal code changes for the iPhone OS.

 

[shigzeo]

I have tested with volume matched levels and without volume matching levels between EQ settings and come to one conclusion: the gain is lowered on certain settings regardless of the tone played. 
 
It is a very nice addition to the iOS 4. Very happy to have it, finally.

 

[DeezNutzSquared]

Thanks for the info semisight, glad to know that you also notice that the several of EQ presets have changed in tone (for better or for worse).
 
My EQ levels in the screenshot will not be accurate (difficult task), as I first tried my best to get my soundcard's hardware EQ to match exactly what I was hearing from the iTouch when the EQ was set to Flat/Off, but I couldn't get an exact match.  I just wanted to give a visual representation of how it could look.
 
shigzeo, what model/generation of iTouch/iPhone do you have?

 

[shigzeo]

I have the iPod touch 2G and am still very happy.

 

[tds101]

iPod touch 3Gs 64GB - happy as H-E-L-L!!!!! And, I'm selling my Sony X-1061 as I don't need it anymore, I love the touch's SQ so much.

 

[slaters70]

Now you have me struggling. Do I send back my J3 replacement from Amazon (coming July 6), as my first 32GB model is frozen and bricked? Then, get a 64GB Touch 3GS? Or do return the J3 and save the cash for the new Touches in Sept (when they usually come out)?
 
With my T3, my Touch 2g (8G) sounds great, so it's tough. I could sell it for $129 or so (paid $149) and then would have to rerip my CD collection into ALAC, as I don't trust converting from flac (I only have 15GB of flac files).
 
I do really like the Touch SQ better than all my DAPs, especially with the LOD and the T3, but I only wish it had external controls for blind use.
 
Advice?

 

[Achmedisdead]

 
Quote:

With my T3, my Touch 2g (8G) sounds great, so it's tough. I could sell it for $129 or so (paid $149) and then would have to rerip my CD collection into ALAC, as I don't trust converting from flac (I only have 15GB of flac files).
 

 
(edited for clarity)
Why don't you trust converting flac to ALAC? Lossless to lossless should be fine.