[NonApplicable]

I have been hear a lot about how people are avoiding the internal amp inside their ipod by using a line in. If I used this method to connect to an ibasso t3 or something similar, would the sound quality rival or even rival a Cowon product(j3, D3, ect)?

 

[NonApplicable]

BUMP

 

[ZARIM]

It's all depend on quality AMPs, better cable and highend IEMs/headphones use in setup. I will recommend the ALO 18AWG SXC or pure Cryo dock cable to use with T3 setup and results will amazed you.

 

[NonApplicable]

but does the quality compare?

 

[ZARIM]

Quote:

but does the quality compare?

It does like if you use silver or genral dock cable with AMPs like Fiio E5 then the results willbe like little improvement in clarity, more bass and more volume. But if you want more soundstage, big step up in mids, highs clarity and deep rich bass then the whole chain need to be high quality. Could you tell us more about the iPod you are using, IEMs/headphones and files are MP3, AAC or Apple Losless?.

 

[scuttle]

The answer is a *little* complex:
 
I haven't heard an ipod with that dac, but the advice I had when I was considering that route, with tha sort of spend on a DAC, was that with lossless or high bit rate files and headphones that didn't need EQ to suit the listener's taste, the ipod + decent dac and the cowon would be about equal. With a superb dac, the ipod would maybe move an edge ahead - for a much higher total cost.
 
BUT the DAC might be capable of driving fullsize headphones that the Cowon couldn't. (Although Cowons are usually better than most PMPs here so we're talking about non-portable highend phones here.)
 
BUT the Cowon's BBE technology would kick the ass of the ipod and any conceivable DAC with lower bitrate files. Click on "bbe" at Cowon's site and you'll see why - it's the same sort of tech that studios use to bring out lost detail in old recordings when they remaster them - it deduces and restores high frequency harmonics that low bitrate files lose. This technology really works - I've copied over my old 90MB versions of albums (made for when I used a 4GB AA-powered Muvo - great machine in its way) instead of the 250MB FLACs and not realized the mistake. You have to listen *hard* to the difference between MP3 + BBE and FLAC.
 
AND the Cowon has better EQ. Much better. So if your headphones aren't exactly what you want to listen to the piece of music you're listening to right now you can do something about it.
 
Overall the advantage seemed to be with Cowon, so that was what I bought. (Otherwise I'd have bought a pod with a wolfson dac and line-out and Rockboxed it - which would have lost iTunes but gained FLAC and better EQ.)

 

[Freeze]

if cowon had a lineout they would be real kick ass unfortunately they dont.

 

[NonApplicable]

Yea, really wish they did. How does the line out work. My understanding is that it bypasses the internal amp, effectively relying entirely on the DAC. Does this option have to be built into the player, or could someone theoretically construct a LOD that would work with Cowon player?
 
@Freeze(EDIT: Meant Scuttle)
On a side note, what level do you prefer you BBE at? Going too high sounds too artificial to me, but that is just my preference.

 

[Freeze]

Sorry I don't own a cowon. My freind owns the s9 though.  You cannot contrust an LOD for the cowon as it does not provide it in the hardware. Theres no port at all for it.
 
With the ipod what normally happens is the digital file is read off the hdd and is sent to the dac chip. The dac chip processes the digital signal into an analog signal. The analog signal is sent to the internal headphone amp and out the 1/8" jack and into your headphones.
 
When you plug a line out connector into the ipod the file is read off the hdd and the digital signal is sent to the dac. The dac converts this signal to analog. Now instead of going to the ipod amp the analog signal is sent through the line out dock. This analog signal goes from the dock and then out to an external amplifier usually with an 1/8" plug. The external amp boosts the volume and power and then you plug your headphones into the headphone output of the external amp you just connected to. This bypasses the ipod amp. External amps are known to deliver much more power and really clean up the sound.

 

[NonApplicable]

****, dock line in shoud be standard for all mp3 player. I imagine it wouldn't cost much.
 
O0ops... I meant to ask Scuttle about BBE. The similar avitars make me think you were the same person; stupid mistake lol

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

if cowon had a lineout they would be real kick ass unfortunately they dont.

I have a strong suspicion that you haven't heard a Cowon.  (Or if you did the EQ hadn't been set correctly.) They're built for audio quality instead of to look cool, the amps are very meaty, and the power packs have huge batteries that will drive any portable headphone for long periods. There are people who use amps with them, but it's the same kind of silliness as people who buy silver cables. I doubt that you'll actually find a significantly better dac/amp in a size that goes sanely with a PMP (rather than in a bag with a netbook.)
 
And if a Cowon amp isn't good enough for you, why pay for it? You might as well get an iPod and Rockbox. You can make up for the lack of BBE by spending more on storage and Rockbox will provide decent EQ.
 
I'd rather have the ability to use the use the Cowon's dac and amp with another source without copying files over, like the Hitman (?) player.
 

 

[Freeze]

I have heard the cowon s9. The sound was great but the fact remains what happens when you try to drive some 300-600ohm low efficiency headphones that need incredible power and you have no lineout. The cowons are good for sensitive iems and low impedance full size but even in those cases an external amp just does wonders to improve sound quality.
 
Also cowon have such a low storage capacity

 

[scuttle]

Quote:

****, dock line in shoud be standard for all mp3 player. I imagine it wouldn't cost much.
 
O0ops... I meant to ask Scuttle about BBE. The similar avitars make me think you were the same person; stupid mistake lol

BBE is probably best on 5. With it set this way I've loaded pretty low rate bitrate files and mistaken them for FLACs - and FLACs sound very, very good on the J3 with the right phones or IEMs. It doesn't affect FLACs because they're full detail. If you want to hear what BBE is like and you use Windows then you can download the JetAudio player software from Cowon's site. 
 
The other thing to say about the Cowons is that they are used by the fanatics like Joker and ClieOS who do the enormous stickied phone reviews. These people are fussy, they know what they are doing, and they have heard everything. (The other player these guys always have is a Rockboxed Clip+ for the gym and the beach.)
 

 

[NonApplicable]

I own a D3 and I like my BBE around 3-4.
Have you noticed that using BBE and other Jeteffect settings with an amp actually muddies certain frequencies and unnaturally elevates some presentation of the music? I had this problem with my iBasso leaving vocals muddy and recessed and immediately stopped amping with a cowon.

 

[Freeze]

i still think ipod + lod + high quality amp > cowon hp out