[elfary]

I'd like to believe you but whenever i grab a calculator, the minimum and maximum impedance of a SE535 and the output impedance of many headphone outs i can understand the legend of treble rolled off comes from: it's just a hole in the 5K region what people complain about not the roll off at the end of the spectrum.
 
That's how important output impedance can be and there is many documentation in the AES that explains the issue from a scientific pov.
 

 

[Bill-P]

That's because the SE535 violates the 1/8 rule. There is a massive drop in its impedance at around the 5K to 10K region (Innerfidelity posted a chart of this, I believe) that would cause serious distortions on any output impedance higher than 1 Ohm.
 
But that's a specific issue with one specific earphone. I don't think it's an issue with output impedance as a whole. And plus it doesn't make output impedance any more important for those who have 30Ohm+ headphones. Heck, Apple's new Earpods are rated at 40 Ohms, even.

 

[moodyrn]

I've been comparing the iphone 5, which I picked up this morning, and my Iphone 4. Like others have reported, they both sound very similar. Although minor, the differences can easily be heard. I find the iphone 5 still have most of the problems I find in the 4, but to a lesser extent imo. The largest difference is in the bass. Using my jh13 and w3000anv as a reference, I find the bass in the iphone 4 to be bloated, boomy without much definition. The bass on the 5 is clearly better. It's tighter, has more texture, and you can clearly tell if it's a bass guitar, or something from a synthesizer. Infact I can hear differences between different brands of bass guitar. For me that's the improvement that jumps out at you.

The mids are less congested and a little clearer on the 4, and the treble is a little more airier with more resolution resulting in a more natural sound. The sound as a whole is just a little more transparent. I do think the 5 is more digital sounding the the 4....just slightly, and the headphone out seems for be just a tad more powerful out of the 4 as well. But the improvements the 5 brings clearly out weights the slightly more digital sound.

Now they sound close enough that I would return one in favor of the other. I do think the 5 sounds better, but not a lot better. But imo, it's the best sounding iphone yet, and sounds more closer to my ipad 3 than the 4 does. I don't know what the output impedance is on the 5, but my jh13 hisses with many amps I've tried. They even had a little hiss out of both the 5.5g and 7g ipod classic. But the background is just as quiet out of the 5 as it is out of the 4, so with my jh13, the output impedance is a non-issue.

 

[elfary]

Quote:

That's because the SE535 violates the 1/8 rule. There is a massive drop in its impedance at around the 5K to 10K region (Innerfidelity posted a chart of this, I believe) that would cause serious distortions on any output impedance higher than 1 Ohm.
 
But that's a specific issue with one specific earphone. I don't think it's an issue with output impedance as a whole. And plus it doesn't make output impedance any more important for those who have 30Ohm+ headphones. Heck, Apple's new Earpods are rated at 40 Ohms, even.

 
I concur that with other armatures (UM3x, SE420, W4) output impedance is less of problem and you can get away with 5 ohms of output impedance and just 1 db of linearity loss.
 
But on wild armatures (which include many customs) the output impedance is critical.
 
Of course on dynamic headphones just abiding by the 1/8 rule you'll be fine.
 
I will try an iPhone 5 next week with both my UM3x and SE420 thus i'll report back.
 
I rely on figures and on my ears as well. One without another would be a flawed approach.

 

[moodyrn]

No problem with my 12 driver jh13. Still don't know for sure what the output impedance is, but the background is just as quiet with better control of the bass compared to the 4.

 

[Bill-P]

I guess it's also worth noting that if you use an extra cable with some significant impedance (usually cable doesn't have significant impedance... but you can make one by including a resistor) to attenuate the high output impedance and improve damping factor then there is still a chance that the low impedance drop of the SE535 won't be noticeable anymore, and you'll be able to enjoy it on sources with higher output impedance.
 
Personally, I haven't tried that since most of my gears have regularly high impedance (in the 30 and above range), but in theory, it should work, and it should also apply to low impedance custom IEMs.

 

[thermos]

Hi folks, 1st post.  I used this site extensively when researching iems, and ended up with the Etymotic HF3s.  They sound just the way I thought they would.  Thank you all.  
 
I went to the Apple Store today (with my Etymotics) and went back and forth between the 4S and the 5 and listened to the same songs available in the itunes playlists.  The security guy started looking at me like I was crazy I did it so many times. Yes I made sure all soundcheck, eq etc. were turned off. I agree with Bill-P all the way.  The 5 sounds better than the 4S and my 4 as well. Clearly a great deal more l+r width, sounds more like my MBP headphone out in that regard.  Also, hi mid info is definitely less fatiguing (which may be a result of the lowered THD spec). I think the main thing is the transient info feels faster (thats why people maybe think it sounds more digital), thus it comes across more detailed.  Very noticeable in the bass range which simply sounds more dynamic and diescernable.  Its just less blurry all around.  I had a lot more fun listening to music I didn't really like, and that says something.  I agree in a way that the soundstage isn't quite as deep, but I think thats more the result of faster transients making things sound more upfront.  
 
Anyway, I'm a musician/mastering engineer so I spend a great deal of my life listening to music and getting paid to make sure it sounds good.  I didn't want to order the 5 if it sounded worse, but it clearly sounds better to me so I'll be ordering it.  Just thought I'd post since so many folks seem to be down on the sound of the 5.  

 

[heart banger-97]

Quote:

I guess it's also worth noting that if you use an extra cable with some significant impedance (usually cable doesn't have significant impedance... but you can make one by including a resistor) to attenuate the high output impedance and improve damping factor then there is still a chance that the low impedance drop of the SE535 won't be noticeable anymore, and you'll be able to enjoy it on sources with higher output impedance.
 
Personally, I haven't tried that since most of my gears have regularly high impedance (in the 30 and above range), but in theory, it should work, and it should also apply to low impedance custom IEMs.

adding impedance doesn't work. according to what I had read in wikipedia, the impedance of the cable will be seen as a source impedance. so adding the Resistance will lower the damping factor

 

[Bill-P]

Quote:

adding impedance doesn't work. according to what I had read in wikipedia, the impedance of the cable will be seen as a source impedance. so adding the Resistance will lower the damping factor

 
Oh no, I didn't mean adding the resistor in a series. Here's the "Head-Fi way" of doing it:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/198828/the-hissbuster-for-sensitive-headphones
 
Some have reported good results with that one.

 

[rudi0504]

According review from gsmarena,and Engadget : iPhone 4 s and 4 the sound quality above Iphone 5

Please note : the stereo cross talk IPhone 5 = - 76,5 < from iPhone 4 S = - 93 < iPhone 4 = 89,6

Base on this review from gsmarena and engadget can not be iPhone 5 better than Iphone 4 S and iPhone 4.

http://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_5-review-822.php

http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/02/iphone-vs-rivals-audio-tests/


Copy from gsmarena :
Test Frequency response Noise level Dynamic range THD IMD + Noise Stereo crosstalk
Apple iPhone 5 +0.06, -0.51. -91.3 91.3 0.0015 0.0093 -76.5
Apple iPhone 5 (headphones attached) +0.00, -0.26 -90.6 90.6 0.0035 0.111 -56.2
Apple iPhone 4S +0.02, -0.11 -91.2 91.2 0.0020 0.012 -93.0
Apple iPhone 4S (headphones attached). +0.05, -0.10 -91.3 91.3 0.0068 0.071 -66.7
Apple iPhone 4 +0.01, -0.07 -90.1 90.0 0.0068 0.012 -89.6
Apple iPhone 4 (headphones attached) +0.01, -0.07 -90.4 90.4 0.0036 0.092 -68.4

I believe the review from gsmarena , all my Iphone 3 GS , i4 and 4 S I bought after I read the review
From gsmarena.

This is my personal opinion base in two review above , until now I hold to buy Iphone 5

I am as funboy from iPhone this time is disappointed with the new Iphone 5

Mostly I use my iPhone as DAP and until today my Iphone 4 S is the best DAP

 

[moodyrn]

And yet you haven't listened to it. The fact is, you have no idea what the iphone 5 sounds like. And neither did I before I got mine. And again, which have been said so many times in other threads. Specs don't tell you what the sound quality of a component is. It gives you a general idea, but not in absolute terms. For example, the iphone 4 measures better than some dacs that cost more than 1000.00. So does that mean that the line out of the iphone 4 sounds better than the 1000.00 dac? The only way to know what a device sounds like is to hear it for yourself. And if nothing else, it cost you nothing to go to an apple store and compare the two for yourself. That's the only way you will know the sound differences. With all of that said, they both sound very similar. They sound close enough that it really shouldn't matter.

 

[rudi0504]

And yet you haven't listened to it. The fact is, you have no idea what the iphone 5 sounds like. And neither did I before I got mine. And again, which have been said so many times in other threads. Specs don't tell you what the sound quality of a component is. It gives you a general idea, but not in absolute terms. For example, the iphone 4 measures better than some dacs that cost more than 1000.00. So does that mean that the line out of the iphone 4 sounds better than the 1000.00 dac? The only way to know what a device sounds like is to hear it for yourself. And if nothing else, it cost you nothing to go to an apple store and compare the two for yourself. That's the only way you will know the sound differences. With all of that said, they both sound very similar. They sound close enough that it really shouldn't matter.

If I have the chance to hear every audio gear ,of course I compare and do audition in audio store

The problem in indonesia coming about 3 - 6 month later , all my brand new iPhone I bought

From Australia or Singapore.

Before I bought my iPhone , I always read gsmarena.com. As my trusted website for all new

Gsm phones .

I see first from gsm arena review is the audio section , it is very important

The stereo crosstalk for All dap, if the stereo crosstalk is not so good than I am waiting

Until I can test by my self .

This time I am waiting the iPhone 5 , if I got the chance i want hear the iphone 5 by my self ,

Because of the result from gsm arena review the data for audio section is not so good .

 

[elfary]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bill-P I guess it's also worth noting that if you use an extra cable with some significant impedance (usually cable doesn't have significant impedance... but you can make one by including a resistor) to attenuate the high output impedance and improve damping factor then there is still a chance that the low impedance drop of the SE535 won't be noticeable anymore, and you'll be able to enjoy it on sources with higher output impedance. Personally, I haven't tried that since most of my gears have regularly high impedance (in the 30 and above range), but in theory, it should work, and it should also apply to low impedance custom IEMs. adding impedance doesn't work. according to what I had read in wikipedia, the impedance of the cable will be seen as a source impedance. so adding the Resistance will lower the damping factor

Actually that is what i was told by a Westone engineer last year when i asked about um3x impedance distribution.

He went as far as telling me to buy the lowest output impedance player i could find and to never add a resistor since it will skew the intended response of the transducers.

I guess that Westone engineer will know better than fans.(i can send the email from Westone to anybody interested in the issue).


You have not really understood something unless you can explain it to your grandma.

 

[moodyrn]

If I have the chance to hear every audio gear ,of course I compare and do audition in audio store
The problem in indonesia coming about 3 - 6 month later , all my brand new iPhone I bought
From Australia or Singapore.
Before I bought my iPhone , I always read gsmarena.com. As my trusted website for all new
Gsm phones .
I see first from gsm arena review is the audio section , it is very important
The stereo crosstalk for All dap, if the stereo crosstalk is not so good than I am waiting
Until I can test by my self .
This time I am waiting the iPhone 5 , if I got the chance i want hear the iphone 5 by my self ,
Because of the result from gsm arena review the data for audio section is not so good .

Well shouldn't you wait to hear one for yourself before you start to make claims of the iphone 4 being better? I have no issue with the ones who have listened to both preferring the iphone 4. Everyone ears are different and you can only trust your own ears. But to make claims of something being better based only on what you read? That's something entirely different.

 

[psikey]

Had a 4S and 5 and did back to back test of same tracks with my Klipsch x10i. For me they have a cleaner, less boomy bass and sounds a bit clearer/sharper in the mids. Highs same to me. Do need to have volume 1-2 steps higher.

Sold the 4S now and perfectly happy with the 5.