Introducing the LCD-i3

[snatex]

Does anyone here mess with the EQ in the iOS app when using the Cipher or BT cable?

 

[snatex]

For critical listening any album before buying, I am using LCD-XC or K1000.
About achieving the same results with any Cipher vs Analog, it is possible, but require a lot of patience and probably need to involve Reveal. Between CBT and Cv2 - the same, but EQ must be used along the way for further corrections.

I've made simple tests with iSine 20 and CBT / analog jack / Reveal some time ago:

There is a lot of room for personal experiments and improvements. Unfortunately, such matching procedure can be achieved flawlessly mostly on measurement equipment. Normal person must trust his own ears and make everything to "sound similar" by ear or based on external data.

What are your cbt and cv2 eq settings?

 

[EvilKillaruna]

With i3 I am using published EQ settings from the previous page of this thread for CBT (v8). For Cipher v2 I am using experimental 66-point parametric EQ. I do not have any other settings for i3 for any other apps than APO Equalizer.

 

[snatex]

Anyone here with better computer skills than me that can take Audiofanatyk's LCDi3 measurements for the Cipher V2 and enter them into Jaako's AutoEq to generate 10 band EQ's for each that we can enter and use with the Audeze HQ ios app?

Here are the links for the measurements and the AutoEQ instructions:

https://www.audiofanatyk.pl/wp-cont...-compare-frequency-response-graph-1900-02.jpg

https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq

 

[EvilKillaruna]

I am afraid there is no chance to convert such complicated measurements into only 10 band fixed EQ. At least if the goal is to make straight tonal conversion from one model to another. You probably have to experiment yourself with the best settings that suit your taste.

Here is latest custom, 66 band, parametric EQ for LCD-i3 that makes their sound signature pretty much like 90% of LCD-i4:

Sounds best with i3 Cipher v2 and analog jack. For i3 Cipher BT I recommend using EQ v8 from my previous post.

The differences versus i4 will still be there, especially with overall quality, midrange position, highs timbre and lowest bass. Nevertheless, it is still very good LCD-i4 emulation with ~90% tonal similarity and about 70% quality of i4. What is more, with this you can actually at last use both Ciphers and Reveal properly with i3. I still cannot understand why Audeze just copy-pasted i4 DSP settings for i3 instead of making a proper ones from the start.

After applying such EQs, you should probably get the best chance to check and decide if LCD-i4 is a way to go for you and valid upgrade option. The only really better choice is to rent normal LCD-i4 for personal listening session.

 

[snatex]

I am afraid there is no chance to convert such complicated measurements into only 10 band fixed EQ. At least if the goal is to make straight tonal conversion from one model to another. You probably have to experiment yourself with the best settings that suit your taste.

Here is latest custom, 66 band, parametric EQ for LCD-i3 that makes their sound signature pretty much like 90% of LCD-i4:

Sounds best with i3 Cipher v2 and analog jack. For i3 Cipher BT I recommend using EQ v8 from my previous post.

The differences versus i4 will still be there, especially with overall quality, midrange position, highs timbre and lowest bass. Nevertheless, it is still very good LCD-i4 emulation with ~90% tonal similarity and about 70% quality of i4. What is more, with this you can actually at last use both Ciphers and Reveal properly with i3. I still cannot understand why Audeze just copy-pasted i4 DSP settings for i3 instead of making a proper ones from the start.

After applying such EQs, you should probably get the best chance to check and decide if LCD-i4 is a way to go for you and valid upgrade option. The only really better choice is to rent normal LCD-i4 for personal listening session.

The Audeze HQ app built to work with the Cipher V2 only has a 10 band EQ and you are the only one that I've seen that has measured the LCDI3 with the Cipher V2.

Using the raw numbers of the 2019 Harmon IE (https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/blob/master/compensation/harman_in-ear_2019v2.csv) I took the 10 data points for the frequencies in Audeze app and then took the estimated raw results from your CipherV2 measurements (https://www.audiofanatyk.pl/wp-cont...-compare-frequency-response-graph-1900-02.jpg) and adjusted them to match the slope of the 2019 Harmon IE. Not sure this is the best method but it is better than default.

 

[snatex]

I entered the 10 data points in Audeze HQ App from Harman 2019 IE into excel, then rounded them, calculated the slope between them, then entered the same points from AF's Cipher V2 measurements, added 5db to all of these to get the big 4k dip within striking distance of the EQ app, then applied the necessary EQ to match the slope of the Harman 2019 IE. The Cipher V2 EQ values are in the box. Let me know what you think.

 

[jhwalker]

I entered the 10 data points in Audeze HQ App from Harman 2019 IE into excel, then rounded them, calculated the slope between them, then entered the same points from AF's Cipher V2 measurements, added 5db to all of these to get the big 4k dip within striking distance of the EQ app, then applied the necessary EQ to match the slope of the Harman 2019 IE. The Cipher V2 EQ values are in the box. Let me know what you think.

Thanks for this - sounds GREAT to me. The i3s always sounded a bit "tubby" and muffled with the default Cipher v2 EQ, but this sounds really nice: bass is balanced, mid-range no longer congested, treble airy

 

[snatex]

Thanks for this - sounds GREAT to me. The i3s always sounded a bit "tubby" and muffled with the default Cipher v2 EQ, but this sounds really nice: bass is balanced, mid-range no longer congested, treble airy

Thanks.

It would be nice if we could get some more measurements of CipherV2 on the LCDi3. AF is literally the only person I've seen on the internet that has measured it.

https://www.audiofanatyk.pl/wp-cont...-compare-frequency-response-graph-1900-02.jpg

Also, I'm not an EQ expert by any means so I'm not even sure the logic I used above is accurate. Was thinking about it more and you might need to double the EQ adjustments to get to the desired target. For example, if you are at 2 and want a desired result of 4 maybe instead of adding 2 you should add 4 to get to 6. Then if you take the EQ of +6 and the original +2 and divide by 2 you get the desired equalized result of +4. Maybe someone who knows a bit more about EQ can chime in on this topic?

On both methods moving 4k by so much seems to cause problems though. Even though it breaks from the formula, toning down the jump at 4k seems to improve the sound to my ears. I lowered that from +11 to +6 and like the change so far.

Also, why does Audeze not allow us to EQ the CipherBT with the ios app or other method (micro usb to PC/Mac?)? Is it not possible to add this functionality? Maybe @KMann or @Audeze can help out with this one?

 

[snatex]

Another approach is to try to adapt the fixed band AutoEQ settings for Crinicle's measurement of the CipherBT to the CipherV2 - https://github.com/jaakkopasanen/AutoEq/tree/master/results/crinacle/harman_in-ear_2019v2/Audeze LCD-i3 (Cipher bluetooth)

If we assume based on AF's measurements that the CipherV2 is pretty much the same as the CipherBT except for more bass in 30-250hz and more treble from 2k-10k we can make the following adjustments:

1) leave the bass alone - the improved bass quantity and slope in AF's measurements look like they are right on target

2) make the same adjustments to the mids 250-1000k

3) lower the adjustments to the treble in the 2k-10k range by -2

Peaking​	31 Hz​	1.41​	0 dB​
Peaking​	62 Hz​	1.41​	0 dB​
Peaking​	125 Hz​	1.41​	0 dB​
Peaking​	250 Hz​	1.41​	-3 dB​
Peaking​	500 Hz​	1.41​	-3 dB​
Peaking​	1000 Hz​	1.41​	-6 dB​
Peaking​	2000 Hz​	1.41​	-2 dB​
Peaking​	4000 Hz​	1.41​	4 dB​
Peaking​	8000 Hz​	1.41​	4 dB​
Peaking​	16000 Hz​	1.41​	1 dB​

One thing to consider is that Crinicle measured a pretty big peak at 1k on the CipherBT and AF did not.

This sounds pretty good to me and an improvement on my first attempt. Let me know what you think.

 

[Audeze]

Thanks.

Also, why does Audeze not allow us to EQ the CipherBT with the ios app or other method (micro usb to PC/Mac?)? Is it not possible to add this functionality? Maybe @KMann or @Audeze can help out with this one?

This really depends on the chipset and how easy it is to support it through the app. The chipset we use in ChiperBT is not easy to modify in realtime.

 

[keithmarsh]

My new custom LCD-i3 pentaconn cable by Oidio. Absolutely love it

 

[audioandy]

This reply came from the official Audeze account on their Amazon page. I hope it isn't against the rules to post it here. But I'd still love to know if you'll hold true to this offer, that you'll release the manufacturing costs of your headphones if the other major players do this same?

This is a direct quote from the official Audeze brand, a screenshot of their answer to an Amazon question:

 

[Matpar]

I tried to keep the pace in the thread and I see there are a lot of ongoing EQ even with the i3

I am fiddling already with a pair of Isine 20 since a couple of years, being more than Happy with those, basically being the only IEM I can leave on for more than 1h

Now the One million dollar question: having the chance to upgrade from 20 to i3, how Better and in which area I could benefit?

 

[EvilKillaruna]

I have a very large article comparing i10 vs i20 vs i3 on my blog. LCD-i3 is a good option if you plan to use them with advanced EQ and want to save some cash this way. Outside the EQ scenario, stick with i20 or go for i4.