Introducing the HIFIMAN EF400 Balanced Desktop DAC/Amplifier!

[Hyde00]

I'm curious, has anyone upgraded their EF400 to the Himalaya Pro Silver or Gold DAC yet?

I forgot where I read it, someone says it gets higher resolution but less organic/warm.

My guess is that it's probably like the difference of BF2 OG to BF2/64.

 

[XGeneX88]

I forgot where I read it, someone says it gets higher resolution but less organic/warm.

My guess is that it's probably like the difference of BF2 OG to BF2/64.

Ah okay thanks! Sounds like I don't need to upgrade then. The fun / organic / warm character of the DAC is what made me fall in love with it.

 

[Hyde00]

Ah okay thanks! Sounds like I don't need to upgrade then. The fun / organic / warm character of the DAC is what made me fall in love with it.

Lol I mean I don't remember where I read it so I could be wrong.

But it sort of makes sense since EF400 is suppose to be the warmest out all the hifiman DACs (as oppose to say something like EF600).

So as Mythbusters would say, it's plausible.

 

[efectozero]

EF400 can power just about anything well including the DT880 600 ohm. Heck it can even power the modhouse tungsten really well too lol.

Thank you. Good to know.

 

[Brain Damage]

Has anyone paired the EF400 with the Beyerdynamic DT880 600-ohm headphones? Would it handle the impedance of those headphones well, or would it fall short on power?

The EF400 powers my DT880 pros (250Ω) and the potentiometer is only at 8 o'clock. It also powers the planars that I have no problem; so yes, the EF400 can easily drive 600Ω dynamic drivers with aplomb.

 

[Rambone]

I'm curious, has anyone upgraded their EF400 to the Himalaya Pro Silver or Gold DAC yet? Would love to know how you feel about your unit after the upgrade, what changes you may have noticed, etc. I am considering trying a unit with a silver or gold chip side by side with my OG unit. Not sure if it's worth the money since the upgrade alone costs what the EF400 can be purchased for.

I forgot where I read it, someone says it gets higher resolution but less organic/warm.

My guess is that it's probably like the difference of BF2 OG to BF2/64.

Lol I mean I don't remember where I read it so I could be wrong.

But it sort of makes sense since EF400 is suppose to be the warmest out all the hifiman DACs (as oppose to say something like EF600).

So as Mythbusters would say, it's plausible.

That was probably me, I posted some thoughts and impressions regarding the GOLD Hymalaya chip upgrade for the EF400 over in the Serenade thread. Yes higher resolution and less organic/warmth is the case. Basically the magic mojo of the EF400 is lost and let's just say my enjoyment of it can be described as 'coping'.

Here is what I posted and I still stand by it.

"A lot of the charm and secret sauce to my ears with the base EF400 was not the technicalities but the warm and lush sounding mids, slightly rolled off treble, fun and energetic sounding bass. With the GOLD upgrade this secret sauce seems rather absent. It's like going from a more musical approach to something more neutral and analytical. It's kind of thrown me off and will take time for me to adjust. It's not something that was completely unexpected but I had to be sure since there wasn't likely going to be any reviews for quite some time if any.

Was the upgrade worth it? I'm having mixed feelings about it. One part of me likes the upgrade and the other part of me that likes the secret sauce of the base EF400 loathes the upgrade. As time marches on I am sure I will find something that works with this upgrade, it's not as if I have a lack of headphones and IEMs to run through it but this will take time."

I'm debating on buying another EF400 since they are so cheap but before I do, I have a FiiO K11 R2R on the way which folks I trust describe it exactly like the OG EF400 so I plan to find out soon as it arrives.

 

[Hyde00]

I'm debating on buying another EF400 since they are so cheap but before I do, I have a FiiO K11 R2R on the way which folks I trust describe it exactly like the OG EF400 so I plan to find out soon as it arrives.

I've been thinking about the EF400 or FiiO K11 R2R. Or just shoot for the moon and go for Qutest.

But if you do get the FiiO K11 R2R definitely pop back and give us some impressions, or even pop by the K11 R2R thread and update us there too.

As for EF400, I haven't look too much into it but....... is the GOLD chip upgrade non-reversible? As in once you upgrade then you can't go back?

I was hoping it would be something like opamp sockets where you can go back and forth forever lol.

 

[Rambone]

I've been thinking about the EF400 or FiiO K11 R2R. Or just shoot for the moon and go for Qutest.

But if you do get the FiiO K11 R2R definitely pop back and give us some impressions, or even pop by the K11 R2R thread and update us there too.

As for EF400, I haven't look too much into it but....... is the GOLD chip upgrade non-reversible? As in once you upgrade then you can't go back?

I was hoping it would be something like opamp sockets where you can go back and forth forever lol.

I will definitely pop in here and provide an update about the K11 R2R and how it compares to the EF400 and possibly the K11 thread as well.

The GOLD and SILVER chip upgrades are non-reversible and non refundable. You also do not get to keep the original chip, so it's not a DIY job either. The OG EF400 is seriously awesome, especially at the prices you can get a refurb for.

I may sound like I am poo pooing on the GOLD upgrade, when in reality it's actually VERY VERY good, infact excellent, it's just not what I was looking for in R2R where buzzwords like warm, lush, natural, organic, lively, enegetic, fun is what attracts me the most to R2R. While I enjoy technicalities, clarity, resolution, detail (etc) as much as the next guy, I don't think that the original EF400 was lacking at all here but the GOLD upgrade just takes these things to the next level with a bit of compromise to my buzzwords. *cries into hands*, oh lush, you will be missed, oh fun, where did you go?

Now it's just a game of finding synergies once more. No big deal, new discoveries to be made.

 

[dsrk]

I will definitely pop in here and provide an update about the K11 R2R and how it compares to the EF400 and possibly the K11 thread as well.

The GOLD and SILVER chip upgrades are non-reversible and non refundable. You also do not get to keep the original chip, so it's not a DIY job either. The OG EF400 is seriously awesome, especially at the prices you can get a refurb for.

I may sound like I am poo pooing on the GOLD upgrade, when in reality it's actually VERY VERY good, infact excellent, it's just not what I was looking for in R2R where buzzwords like warm, lush, natural, organic, lively, enegetic, fun is what attracts me the most to R2R. While I enjoy technicalities, clarity, resolution, detail (etc) as much as the next guy, I don't think that the original EF400 was lacking at all here but the GOLD upgrade just takes these things to the next level with a bit of compromise to my buzzwords. *cries into hands*, oh lush, you will be missed, oh fun, where did you go?

Now it's just a game of finding synergies once more. No big deal, new discoveries to be made.

It's just like what I felt about Hiby RS8 when I compared my RS6. My brain was telling the former sounding better but my heart was still going to the latter. And I kept the RS6 and returned the RS8.

The only reason I was looking for another DAC/AMP is that EF400 doesn't have Pre-out for my speakers. After reading more and more reviews, I decided to get an AMP with Pre-out.

My EF400 is going nowhere.

 

[XGeneX88]

I will definitely pop in here and provide an update about the K11 R2R and how it compares to the EF400 and possibly the K11 thread as well.

The GOLD and SILVER chip upgrades are non-reversible and non refundable. You also do not get to keep the original chip, so it's not a DIY job either. The OG EF400 is seriously awesome, especially at the prices you can get a refurb for.

I may sound like I am poo pooing on the GOLD upgrade, when in reality it's actually VERY VERY good, infact excellent, it's just not what I was looking for in R2R where buzzwords like warm, lush, natural, organic, lively, enegetic, fun is what attracts me the most to R2R. While I enjoy technicalities, clarity, resolution, detail (etc) as much as the next guy, I don't think that the original EF400 was lacking at all here but the GOLD upgrade just takes these things to the next level with a bit of compromise to my buzzwords. *cries into hands*, oh lush, you will be missed, oh fun, where did you go?

Now it's just a game of finding synergies once more. No big deal, new discoveries to be made.

This sounds like how I felt in regards to comparing my EF400 and Serenade side by side (using them only as a DAC for this specific comparison). I actually ended up heavily preferring EF400 because it had those "warm, lush, organic, analog" qualities. The Serenade had superior technicalities for sure .. at least comparatively speaking .. however the EF400 just made music so much more enjoyable to actually listen to and experience. It also played nicer with some of my brighter/harsher headphones acting as a true "universal DAC" which would just handle anything and everything I threw at it without ever making me feel uncomfortable. With the Serenade as the DAC, there would definitely be times where I would think of and miss the EF400's warmer/smoother/analog nature. You've pretty much solidified my thoughts here that EF400 is a crazy good bargain if one is searching for a truly immersive and proper sounding R2R implementation. I'm not sure that there's actually any R2R DAC out there that can beat the EF400 when taking that dirt cheap refurb price into account..

 

[Hyde00]

I may sound like I am poo pooing on the GOLD upgrade, when in reality it's actually VERY VERY good, infact excellent, it's just not what I was looking for in R2R where buzzwords like warm, lush, natural, organic, lively, enegetic, fun is what attracts me the most to R2R. While I enjoy technicalities, clarity, resolution, detail (etc) as much as the next guy, I don't think that the original EF400 was lacking at all here but the GOLD upgrade just takes these things to the next level with a bit of compromise to my buzzwords. *cries into hands*, oh lush, you will be missed, oh fun, where did you go?

lol this reminds me when I bought the upgrade card for Bifrost 2/64, my first impression is that it sounded just........ "normal"? Like Bifrost 2 OG definitely had a personality, but 2/64 to me just sounds like the typical linear delta sigma dac.

So I definitely get what you mean. When buying R2R you have a certain expectation, when that expectation is not met it makes wonder if we should've just bought a delta sigma dac instead.

I previously put off the idea of getting EF400 due to inconsistencies I read online. Like some claim it's loud with 1 usb port if you use the other one it's quieter and if you connect to tablet it loud again if you connect to PC it's quiet. It just sounded to me it's all over the place.

But based on you guys' sound feedback I think I'll start keeping my eye out for a unit again lol.

 

[Rambone]

It's just like what I felt about Hiby RS8 when I compared my RS6. My brain was telling the former sounding better but my heart was still going to the latter. And I kept the RS6 and returned the RS8.

The only reason I was looking for another DAC/AMP is that EF400 doesn't have Pre-out for my speakers. After reading more and more reviews, I decided to get an AMP with Pre-out.

My EF400 is going nowhere.

This sounds like how I felt in regards to comparing my EF400 and Serenade side by side (using them only as a DAC for this specific comparison). I actually ended up heavily preferring EF400 because it had those "warm, lush, organic, analog" qualities. The Serenade had superior technicalities for sure .. at least comparatively speaking .. however the EF400 just made music so much more enjoyable to actually listen to and experience. It also played nicer with some of my brighter/harsher headphones acting as a true "universal DAC" which would just handle anything and everything I threw at it without ever making me feel uncomfortable. With the Serenade as the DAC, there would definitely be times where I would think of and miss the EF400's warmer/smoother/analog nature. You've pretty much solidified my thoughts here that EF400 is a crazy good bargain if one is searching for a truly immersive and proper sounding R2R implementation. I'm not sure that there's actually any R2R DAC out there that can beat the EF400 when taking that dirt cheap refurb price into account..

lol this reminds me when I bought the upgrade card for Bifrost 2/64, my first impression is that it sounded just........ "normal"? Like Bifrost 2 OG definitely had a personality, but 2/64 to me just sounds like the typical linear delta sigma dac.

So I definitely get what you mean. When buying R2R you have a certain expectation, when that expectation is not met it makes wonder if we should've just bought a delta sigma dac instead.

I previously put off the idea of getting EF400 due to inconsistencies I read online. Like some claim it's loud with 1 usb port if you use the other one it's quieter and if you connect to tablet it loud again if you connect to PC it's quiet. It just sounded to me it's all over the place.

But based on you guys' sound feedback I think I'll start keeping my eye out for a unit again lol.

Totally great examples guys! The EF400 R2R experience is worth every penny and there is no substitute, even within the Hifiman lineup. Daddy don't want none of that EF600 or Serenade.

As far as the USB issue, seems like a very isolated issue. I tried both USB ports and I didn't experience this with my PC but I am also not connecting the EF400 to DAPs, Tablets, Phones, etc. It just sits stationary at my desk and whatever is plugged into it at the moment is 100% final. I have a balanced connection out to my Liquid Platinum tube amp and RCA ports out to a line switcher to service 4 different amps. So even if it was a thing, it wouldn't affect me or my use case.

 

[SmartCheetah]

Is there any kind of protective film on the front panel that can be removed? I sold my EF400 to a friend, and he showed me this. It looks like air bubbles under some film. He tried to remove it, but we don't want to make things worse.

 

[Hyde00]

Is there any kind of protective film on the front panel that can be removed? I sold my EF400 to a friend, and he showed me this. It looks like air bubbles under some film. He tried to remove it, but we don't want to make things worse.

That sure look like protective film bubbles to me.

Maybe use a small knife see if you can lift the edges?

 

[SmartCheetah]

I guess the question is - is there any removable protection on this panel in the first place? Because if it's not supposed to be removed, I'd not touch it.