Introducing HIFIMAN Susvara Unveiled: Elevating Audio Excellence!

[ThanatosVI]

The DCA Stealth which measures great on a fixture but not so well on a head?

Why wouldn't they measure great on a head?

 

[rthomas]

Why wouldn't they measure great on a head?

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-are-dan-clark-not-recommended-so-much.45041/

Please see post no 6

 

[rthomas]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-are-dan-clark-not-recommended-so-much.45041/

Please see post no 6

I compared a new DCA Stealth to a new LCD5. The bass on the LCD5 sounded so much better it was shocking. The measurements would indicate the opposite.

 

[ThanatosVI]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-are-dan-clark-not-recommended-so-much.45041/

Please see post no 6

Thx for sharing. I didn't know this was a thing but it indeed does explain why we hear DCA headphones so differently.

I hear the Expanse as very strong in the Bass, just like the measurements on a rig would indicate. While others find them to have significantly less bass, which always confused me, given how I hear it.

 

[Dragon Leader]

I think if you have a high 6 figure income or a 7 figure net worth , $8k every few years on a hobby is insignificant….

Especially if you’re even half decent at managing and investing your money.

people with a 7 figure income probably don't even recognize if they are missing 8K somewhere. After all, this would be just like 10% of their monthly before taxes.

 

[dguitarnut]

Actually headphone hobby is quite cheap compared to Hifi speaker systems……….you have to spend upwards of 25K for just barely above entry level speakers in the Magico line……….final entry level system is around 60K plus…..by the time you add all the snake oil components like footers and cables etc etc……I know….i was there. I have since moved and am confined to small Hifi room and close neighbors so I sold off speakers and amps…………
My Woo WA22 tube amp is a gift for less than 3K. My entry level Vac Tube amp was close to 12K.
And to sum up……my ZMF Caldera with the WA22 blows away sonically my speaker system.

 

[klardotsh]

Yeeeee hawwwww. I sometimes ponder whether I *really* need $8-10k in headphones *total*, across the several that I own. HFM asking $8k for a single set of cans, during a huge economic downturn that is impacting everyone from the burger flippers to the director and VP levels, is - dare I use the pun - tone deaf.

But then, I'm also not the type who needs the latest-gen iGadget or the fastest car to be happy, and I've tapped out of the DAC/amp game at the RME ADI-2 as "plenty great enough for me", so I'm not exactly their target demographic with a product like this, I suppose.

 

[Alenotta]

I have a pair on my head right now. I would not recommend it. You can certainly hear sounds with the covers on though.

Can we get a separate review on just the veil covers? In case any of us want to just buy those to board up our ears and stop the spending?

 

[Dragon Leader]

Can we get a separate review on just the veil covers? In case any of us want to just buy those to board up our ears and stop the spending?

I can make you some. That advanced CNC technology has been pretty much standard for the last 40 - 50 years.

 

[rthomas]

I can make you some. That advanced CNC technology has been pretty much standard for the last 40 - 50 years.

I thought it was pretty funny how they described CNC machining as some sort of alien technology that they’re harnessing!!

We send programs to machines and they cut metal how we want

 

[Dragon Leader]

Indeed and just think about the idea of surface coating those heavenly crafted pieces.
BTW those plates can do with a lathe alone unless they have a machined insert that fits into the holes above the drivers.
Can't see it in the video with the young lady as she puts the inside part on the table.

If I understand the idea correctly those plates are only to protect the drives. Could they not also make a magnetic pad attachment like Meze does?

 

[Vamp898]

Actually headphone hobby is quite cheap compared to Hifi speaker systems……….you have to spend upwards of 25K for just barely above entry level speakers in the Magico line……….final entry level system is around 60K plus…..by the time you add all the snake oil components like footers and cables etc etc……I know….i was there. I have since moved and am confined to small Hifi room and close neighbors so I sold off speakers and amps…………
My Woo WA22 tube amp is a gift for less than 3K. My entry level Vac Tube amp was close to 12K.
And to sum up……my ZMF Caldera with the WA22 blows away sonically my speaker system.

You can easily beat a 40'000$ speaker system with an 1500$ IEM setup terms of sonic performance. It is actually pretty easy to beat speaker setups with good IEM. They have lots of phase issues, distortion, they change their frequency response while you're moving your head and so on.

But one of the best speaker setups i have heard so far (listening to an 40'000$ speaker setup in an well treated room) have been the Yamaha HS8+HS8S and this setup costs less than 1200$ and so is still significantly cheaper than the Susvara

But yes, generally speaking, you pay more for speakers. And getting ripped off is even easier than in the Headphone world.

 

[Dragon Leader]

I agree, getting a room right is really a challenge. It could go so far as to completely design a house's construction, including the choice of materials, position, and shape of the room to achieve the desired results. And yes there are speakers that cost a Million like the Moon Audio Opulence and the like, if this is a ripoff or just something very exclusive that gives you the last 0.1% of sound with diminishing returns at its limit can only judged by people that have the means to compare.

In my opinion, the majority of those customers are very much into stereo setups and have experience or ask someone who knows a lot about the topic. At this price level, money is obviously not a limitation.

Having said that, although this is a headphone forum I think that both a stereo setup and headphones have their pros and cons. In my opinion, you can not achieve the same 3 dimensional and physical listening experience with IEMs that you can with speakers. On the other hand, it might be difficult to reach the clarity and low distortion sound with speakers that you can get from IEMs and headphones.
For me, IEMs do not provide the same airiness as Speakers or open-back headphones do.
Stereo setups also feel more relaxed in a sense as you have nothing attached to your body.

Please don't get me wrong it is just my personal experience and my IEM knowledge ends at things like the Multiverse Mentor, Trailli JP, Z1R, and Odin so I can not speak for things like the Amber Pearl and other IEMs that match the new Susvara in price.

It comes down to a matter of preference and money I would say.
If you have a lot of squared bucks you might as well get yourself an amazing several million USD stereo setup and savor in that experience. It is the whole package, the room, the atmosphere, even the furniture that makes it great.

If you prefer it more intimate then a N30LE with some good IEMs might be endgame for you.

The question that counts for me here is if those new Susvara are really better and at least different from the OG.
Different can be a decisive factor for many people as well.

 

[Vamp898]

I agree, getting a room right is really a challenge. It could go so far as to completely design a house's construction, including the choice of materials, position, and shape of the room to achieve the desired results. And yes there are speakers that cost a Million like the Moon Audio Opulence and the like, if this is a ripoff or just something very exclusive that gives you the last 0.1% of sound with diminishing returns at its limit can only judged by people that have the means to compare.

In my opinion, the majority of those customers are very much into stereo setups and have experience or ask someone who knows a lot about the topic. At this price level, money is obviously not a limitation.

Having said that, although this is a headphone forum I think that both a stereo setup and headphones have their pros and cons. In my opinion, you can not achieve the same 3 dimensional and physical listening experience with IEMs that you can with speakers. On the other hand, it might be difficult to reach the clarity and low distortion sound with speakers that you can get from IEMs and headphones.
For me, IEMs do not provide the same airiness as Speakers or open-back headphones do.
Stereo setups also feel more relaxed in a sense as you have nothing attached to your body.

Please don't get me wrong it is just my personal experience and my IEM knowledge ends at things like the Multiverse Mentor, Trailli JP, Z1R, and Odin so I can not speak for things like the Amber Pearl and other IEMs that match the new Susvara in price.

It comes down to a matter of preference and money I would say.
If you have a lot of squared bucks you might as well get yourself an amazing several million USD stereo setup and savor in that experience. It is the whole package, the room, the atmosphere, even the furniture that makes it great.

If you prefer it more intimate then a N30LE with some good IEMs might be endgame for you.

The question that counts for me here is if those new Susvara are really better and at least different from the OG.
Different can be a decisive factor for many people as well.

You're not wrong. There is a significant difference listening to speakers or listening to an IEM.

Its the same with cars vs bikes. For 20k you can get a bike that drives 350km/h or even faster (>=210mph for you americans). A car being able to do the same speed costs significantly more.

Or the other way around. An average everyday standard car costs you around 16k while a bike that can keep up with that car, only costs 4k. But you can not seat 4 people on a bike.

So speakers and IEM are not the same, i do totally agree and it is different. I was solely talking about sonic performance, not the overall listening experience.

As long you are not buying the Susvara, you can afford an IEM, an Headphone and speakers plus have money leftover for food and rent.

 

[rthomas]

You can easily beat a 40'000$ speaker system with an 1500$ IEM setup terms of sonic performance. It is actually pretty easy to beat speaker setups with good IEM. They have lots of phase issues, distortion, they change their frequency response while you're moving your head and so on.

But one of the best speaker setups i have heard so far (listening to an 40'000$ speaker setup in an well treated room) have been the Yamaha HS8+HS8S and this setup costs less than 1200$ and so is still significantly cheaper than the Susvara

But yes, generally speaking, you pay more for speakers. And getting ripped off is even easier than in the Headphone world.

I have to disagree with this.

If you have a living situation which allows for speakers in the EU for around the price of a Susvara Unveiled:

1: you can get 2 x Genelec 8361s and EQ it to the room and have a private rock concert at home. Amp and DAC built in with a solid cast aluminium case that weighs 32 KG per speaker

I'm astonished when comparing the value propostions:

1 x 450 gram headphone with cheap pads and a painted leather strap or 64 KG of cast aluminium active speakers with built in amps and DACs

The margins must be insanely good

Yes I know we're paying for R&D and that special silver driver but still, makes you think..........


2. Or you can for the price of Susvara Unveiled + the kind of totl amp people say it needs you can get a Dutch & Dutch 8C speakers which have exceptionally good measurements.