[martel80]

Yes, this is really nice

One track I always make sure to play is ”Within” by Daft Punk. It such a nice, well recorded track with alot of details. Once everything falls into place you just stop listening to your system and listen in awe to the music (at least I do!). But it’s really, really hard to get it to sound just right: the piano, the vocoder, the cymbals, effects etc. Another one is ”Little Things” by Big Thief. It just hits different when you get everything right.

This is good!

Big thief is a bit congested and couldn't get much out of it ( still the nanos were able to get some sense of depth out if it so that might be one thing to use it for.) but Within was very impressive.

Because of that D.P. song you shared I was able to pin point two resonant in the Nanos drivers. There's one right at 6900hz (the strongest one and it sound like a metal post ringing) and another one at 470hz ( a bit less obvious but very cumbersome for the mid range).

I don't think it need to be corrected as it seems to be a driver flaw more then a frequency target issue. I'm not sure I'm happy I noticed it, I don't want to start focusing on that in everything I listen to, lol.

In total fairness, you really need to listen and focus on those specific frequencies to hear it. It help if you isolate it with a very sharp EQ ( like a Q of 3 or so.)

You can clearly hear it (the 6900hz resonant) in the opening piano part of ''Within''. ( I confirmed on my other references and it's there pretty much everywhere....but not on Chan Chan for some reason....go figure).

EDIT: I thought it might be a fundamental of the highest note on a piano but apparently only a 108 key piano can produce such an high note fundamental resonant and its unlikely that they played one as the first one was built in 2018. It also sound like they played a ''normal'' grand.)
Thanks for sharing.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Big thief is a bit congested and couldn't get much out of it ( still the nanos were able to get some sense of depth out if it so that might be one thing to use it for.) but Within was very impressive.

Because of that D.P. song you shared I was able to pin point two resonant in the Nanos drivers. There's one right at 6900hz (the strongest one and it sound like a metal post ringing) and another one at 470hz ( a bit less obvious but very cumbersome for the mid range).

I don't think it need to be corrected as it seems to be a driver flaw more then a frequency target issue. I'm not sure I'm happy I noticed it, I don't want to start focusing on that in everything I listen to, lol.

In total fairness, you really need to listen and focus on those specific frequencies to hear it. It help if you isolate it with a very sharp EQ ( like a Q of 3 or so.)

You can clearly hear it (the 6900hz resonant) in the opening piano part of ''Within''. ( I confirmed on my other references and it's there pretty much everywhere....but not on Chan Chan for some reason....go figure).

EDIT: I thought it might be a fundamental of the highest note on a piano but apparently only a 108 key piano can produce such an high note fundamental resonant and its unlikely that they played one as the first one was built in 2018. It also sound like they played a ''normal'' grand.)
Thanks for sharing.

Yeah, I can hear it at 6900 Hz! I’ve actually heard it before but never thought that it was a resonance, always thought that it was the piano But I’m unable to hear the one at 470 Hz… At least we now know that ”Within” is a great test track

Could you try ”Woman in Chains” by Tears for Fears and ”Walking with Elephants” by Ten Walls see if you hear the resonances there too? I’m trying to understand the use cases for some other test tracks.

P.S. The thing with the Big Thief track is that it makes ”sense” when things are right. Agree that it’s not a traditional test track but for me it either connects or doesn’t depending on the setup.

 

[martel80]

Yeah, I can hear it at 6900 Hz! I’ve actually heard it before but never thought that it was a resonance, always thought that it was the piano But I’m unable to hear the one at 470 Hz… At least we now know that ”Within” is a great test track

Could you try ”Woman in Chains” by Tears for Fears and ”Walking with Elephants” by Ten Walls see if you hear the resonances there too? I’m trying to understand the use cases for some other test tracks.

P.S. The thing with the Big Thief track is that it makes ”sense” when things are right. Agree that it’s not a traditional test track but for me it either connects or doesn’t depending on the setup.

The tears for fears one also replicate the resonance but its not all up in your face. Mostly due to the way it was mixed. You can hear it at 1:30 and forward. The 470hz resonant on the other hand is a lot more apparent here.

The Ten Walls one really doesn't make neither of the resonant pop out at all. Barely able to hear it at 470 hz. It really doesn't show at 6900hz.

Here's some track where you can hear the 6900hz resonance in full effect;
- Billie Eilish - No Time to die ( check all the ''s'' that are otherwise very quiet in context completely pop out when isolated)
- Bob Marley - Is This Love ( Every hooks you can hear the tambourine getting out of hand at 6900hz )
- DJ Premier, Common - In Moe ( All throughout the songs, every ''s'' are super harsh when isolated while in context they sound completely fair and on the shy side.)
- FKA Twigs - Two Weeks ( Same thing as the DJ Premier song but even better balance in context but still completely out of hand when isolated)
- 2Pac - Changes ( Every hook ''s'' goes completely out of hand at 6900)
- Drake - One Dance (The complete song reflect the resonance all up in your face, while in context it sound very balanced with a super loud kick.)
- Notorious BIG - Sky's the Limit ( The song in context is wonderfully mixed for a rap song, when isolated, the 6900 in the hook is completely out of hand.)

I agree with the Big Thief song. It wouldn't translate at all or very very badly on poor system and devices so its definitely a useful track.

I just tried those same songs on the Neumann NDH30 and it doesn't go through like that. Sometime it does sound harsh obviously but it certainly doesn't sound like an harmonic resonance so that lead me to confirm that it really is a ''Nanos issue'' or should I say, driver behaviour.

Edit: Just for fun and giggles;

 

[TheR0v3r]

The tears for fears one also replicate the resonance but its not all up in your face. Mostly due to the way it was mixed. You can hear it at 1:30 and forward. The 470hz resonant on the other hand is a lot more apparent here.

The Ten Walls one really doesn't make neither of the resonant pop out at all. Barely able to hear it at 470 hz. It really doesn't show at 6900hz.

Here's some track where you can hear the 6900hz resonance in full effect;
- Billie Eilish - No Time to die ( check all the ''s'' that are otherwise very quiet in context completely pop out when isolated)
- Bob Marley - Is This Love ( Every hooks you can hear the tambourine getting out of hand at 6900hz )
- DJ Premier, Common - In Moe ( All throughout the songs, every ''s'' are super harsh when isolated while in context they sound completely fair and on the shy side.)
- FKA Twigs - Two Weeks ( Same thing as the DJ Premier song but even better balance in context but still completely out of hand when isolated)
- 2Pac - Changes ( Every hook ''s'' goes completely out of hand at 6900)
- Drake - One Dance (The complete song reflect the resonance all up in your face, while in context it sound very balanced with a super loud kick.)
- Notorious BIG - Sky's the Limit ( The song in context is wonderfully mixed for a rap song, when isolated, the 6900 in the hook is completely out of hand.)

I agree with the Big Thief song. It wouldn't translate at all or very very badly on poor system and devices so its definitely a useful track.

I just tried those same songs on the Neumann NDH30 and it doesn't go through like that. Sometime it does sound harsh obviously but it certainly doesn't sound like an harmonic resonance so that lead me to confirm that it really is a ''Nanos issue'' or should I say, driver behaviour.

Edit: Just for fun and giggles;

Excellent tracks and descriptions

Tried those songs on the Sennheiser HD 600. When you know what to listen for it’s clearly a difference at 6900 Hz. I tried EQ:ing the Ananda Nano but only introduces other issues because it throws of the balance. In the grand scheme of things this is a minor issue that I most certainly can live it.

I’m very happy the EQ and consider this mission accomplished

 

[martel80]

Excellent tracks and descriptions

Tried those songs on the Sennheiser HD 600. When you know what to listen for it’s clearly a difference at 6900 Hz. I tried EQ:ing the Ananda Nano but only introduces other issues because it throws of the balance. In the grand scheme of things this is a minor issue that I most certainly can live it.

I’m very happy the EQ and consider this mission accomplished

I can definitely live with it as well.

Have you return back to your EQ Settings?

 

[TheR0v3r]

I can definitely live with it as well.

Have you return back to your EQ Settings?

Actually I’m using your latest update.

Thanks to our discussions I’ve learned alot about EQ, these headphones and sound in general. Now I’m having fun experimenting!

 

[Toriga]

I have no merit. I'm simply A/B'ing and phase inverting the calibration file I got after their measurement.

I did notice the kick and the vocals ( the last is not a night and day thing but if you quickly switch between your profile and my correction , you should hear the voice being beefier and more upfront) but you really need to listen to individual part very closely to hear whats going on.

I suggest making a 5 seconds loop in your DAW and quickly switching between the profiles and focusing on one specific part/ instrument of the song.

I made some fine tuning to my revision of your profile. After phase inversion, I still have a small 1db overshoot at about 450hz. Nothing dramatic but just so you know it's there. I'm just out of bands in Pro Q3 to correct it.

The rest is very very close to the calibration file under linear phase in Sonarwork and Max phase correction in Pro Q 3.

Here's the path to the preset if it can help :
C:\Users\YOUR USERNAME\Documents\FabFilter\Presets\Pro-Q 3

Let me know what you think.

Can you convert for Equalizer APO?
I would like try.
This is EQ for ananda nano right?
Because this discussion is going off topic.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Some thoughts after exploring EQ with the Ananda Nano’s
During the last few weeks I’ve been exploring eq and how it effects how I experience the Ananda Nano’s. It has lead me to some surprising conclusions and if it hadn’t been for @martel80 I’d probably still be in the dark

During the last few days one of the things that really hit me was how naive I’ve been both as ”reviewer” (in its broadest sense) when writing posts here but also when it comes to drawing conclusions from listening/watching ”professional” (ie paid) reviewers. How is it possible that I still can’t understand the differences between the Hifiman Arya Organic, HE 1000 Stealth and HE1000 SE after watching alot of reviews? In comparison it took me about a hour to get a sense of the differences between the Audeze LCD-X, LCD-2C and MM-500.

My understanding now is that a headphone acts as one filter and the ”room” (ear and body in the case of headphones) as another filter. So the impulse response of the headphone is actually ”blended” (there must be a better technical term!) with the input signal and then in turn the output signal from the headphone is ”blended” with the impulse response of the ”room” before we experience sound. So now I see that it’s crucial to understand how different headphones ”filter” the output signal, interact with the ”room” AND how changes to the input signal impact the two. This is best understod by using test tracks.

It makes total sense to me now that being able to relate to how music actually sounds is a much better way to understand and explain the performance of a headphone. Instead of soundbites like ”it’s more resolving” or ”it’s bright(er)”, which are very abstract, it’s much easier to understand the impact on what is actually heard (ie the music itself).

All this has got me thinking about how to better understand the potential performance of any headphone (or system). For example it dawned on me how easily some sounds (frequencies) can be masked by other frequencies if tuning isn’t ”right”, adjusting the frequency response can uncover these masked sounds which would have nothing to do with the headphones inherent resolution. So in a way it would make sense to somehow first understand a headphones technical limitations by doing proper ”stress tests”. Is there anyway to test for example the resolving capabilities of the Ananda Nano distinct from it’s tuning?

 

[martel80]

Some thoughts after exploring EQ with the Ananda Nano’s
During the last few weeks I’ve been exploring eq and how it effects how I experience the Ananda Nano’s. It has lead me to some surprising conclusions and if it hadn’t been for @martel80 I’d probably still be in the dark

During the last few days one of the things that really hit me was how naive I’ve been both as ”reviewer” (in its broadest sense) when writing posts here but also when it comes to drawing conclusions from listening/watching ”professional” (ie paid) reviewers. How is it possible that I still can’t understand the differences between the Hifiman Arya Organic, HE 1000 Stealth and HE1000 SE after watching alot of reviews? In comparison it took me about a hour to get a sense of the differences between the Audeze LCD-X, LCD-2C and MM-500.

My understanding now is that a headphone acts as one filter and the ”room” (ear and body in the case of headphones) as another filter. So the impulse response of the headphone is actually ”blended” (there must be a better technical term!) with the input signal and then in turn the output signal from the headphone is ”blended” with the impulse response of the ”room” before we experience sound. So now I see that it’s crucial to understand how different headphones ”filter” the output signal, interact with the ”room” AND how changes to the input signal impact the two. This is best understod by using test tracks.

It makes total sense to me now that being able to relate to how music actually sounds is a much better way to understand and explain the performance of a headphone. Instead of soundbites like ”it’s more resolving” or ”it’s bright(er)”, which are very abstract, it’s much easier to understand the impact on what is actually heard (ie the music itself).

All this has got me thinking about how to better understand the potential performance of any headphone (or system). For example it dawned on me how easily some sounds (frequencies) can be masked by other frequencies if tuning isn’t ”right”, adjusting the frequency response can uncover these masked sounds which would have nothing to do with the headphones inherent resolution. So in a way it would make sense to somehow first understand a headphones technical limitations by doing proper ”stress tests”. Is there anyway to test for example the resolving capabilities of the Ananda Nano distinct from its tuning?

I think you described it perfectly.

We have a saying in the audio engineering world and it goes like this :

“ consumer use their devices to listen to our music while we use Music to listen to our devices”.

To test the resolution ( sense of details in contrast) of any device, the best way is to first play a badly or harshly mixed song on your consumer device and then play it with the “new device” you are trying to get a grasp of.( ie, punk garage or old mixtape rap). If you hardly feel a better sense of depth or instrument separation, that’s a red flag that your “ new device” might not be up to par. Second step would be to play a very dynamic and well recorded song (lossless preferred) ( if you are not knowledgeable and still don’t understand what to listen to, I suggest reading the best engineered album of each years picked by the Grammy. That’s a good starting point. ) HERE (under winner and nominees tab). Same thing as previously. Listen to the details and not the whole picture on your consumer device and again in your “new device”.

With experience and giving yourself some reference point ( for example, in a specific track of the Beatles you hear a click like a tape recording being cut off and pasted to another section) you will be able to see where, when and why some devices gives you the ability to have a sort of “magnifying glass” inside a recording and not only a big picture. I think makrem meme with his Jesus Christ and not knowing what you are doing or how to fix what you are hearing is the perfect example. Boost the bass too much and you lose definition in the midrange and start to get a muffled sound. Boost the treble too much and you start to feel like listening to your cellphone. Boost the mids too much and you start to feel like the song was mixed like a congested nose.

Now apply those ideas to micro changes and train your ears to hear the difference and how it affects neighbouring frequencies.

I think that’s what we did with the nanos. The most notable part to me was both bands we added to each sides of the 2800hz bell you created first. The bell you created first made the vocals sitting WITH the mix ( and not burried anymore). The side bands I added made them fuller and more natural.

The nanos are wonderful cans but to really reach their full potential, it requires some fine tuning. Just like any reference devices. Which is why we build our studios a certain way and place our monitors in a specific angle and so on and so forth.

Audio engineering is….. engineering. It is a complex world with multiple sub themes that are still to this day the basis of university PHD thesis.

The nanos are a great set of tools that are quite cheap for their rendering and capabilities. It is one of the very few finding in this sea of audio hardware that gave me a long term “waow” factor and I’ve been doing this for 25 years this year.

Hope that help.

 

[TheR0v3r]

I think you described it perfectly.

We have a saying in the audio engineering world and it goes like this :

“ consumer use their devices to listen to our music while we use Music to listen to our devices”.

To test the resolution ( sense of details in contrast) of any device, the best way is to first play a badly or harshly mixed song on your consumer device and then play it with the “new device” you are trying to get a grasp of.( ie, punk garage or old mixtape rap). If you hardly feel a better sense of depth or instrument separation, that’s a red flag that your “ new device” might not be up to par. Second step would be to play a very dynamic and well recorded song (lossless preferred) ( if you are not knowledgeable and still don’t understand what to listen to, I suggest reading the best engineered album of each years picked by the Grammy. That’s a good starting point. ) HERE (under winner and nominees tab). Same thing as previously. Listen to the details and not the whole picture on your consumer device and again in your “new device”.

With experience and giving yourself some reference point ( for example, in a specific track of the Beatles you hear a click like a tape recording being cut off and pasted to another section) you will be able to see where, when and why some devices gives you the ability to have a sort of “magnifying glass” inside a recording and not only a big picture. I think makrem meme with his Jesus Christ and not knowing what you are doing or how to fix what you are hearing is the perfect example. Boost the bass too much and you lose definition in the midrange and start to get a muffled sound. Boost the treble too much and you start to feel like listening to your cellphone. Boost the mids too much and you start to feel like the song was mixed like a congested nose.

Now apply those ideas to micro changes and train your ears to hear the difference and how it affects neighbouring frequencies.

I think that’s what we did with the nanos. The most notable part to me was both bands we added to each sides of the 2800hz bell you created first. The bell you created first made the vocals sitting WITH the mix ( and not burried anymore). The side bands I added made them fuller and more natural.

The nanos are wonderful cans but to really reach their full potential, it requires some fine tuning. Just like any reference devices. Which is why we build our studios a certain way and place our monitors in a specific angle and so on and so forth.

Audio engineering is….. engineering. It is a complex world with multiple sub themes that are still to this day the basis of university PHD thesis.

The nanos are a great set of tools that are quite cheap for their rendering and capabilities. It is one of the very few finding in this sea of audio hardware that gave me a long term “waow” factor and I’ve been doing this for 25 years this year.

Hope that help.

Excellent suggestions about getting some ”reference points”. The idea of using badly mixed songs is brilliant, that’s the kind of thinking I was looking for. That seems like a really efficient way to figure out differences. In a way that was the use case for ”Little Things” without knowing what I was doing

Merry Christmas!

P.S. Let me know when it’s time to explore one of the Audeze’s, I’d love to do a comparison with the Ananda Nano

 

[martel80]

Excellent suggestions about getting some ”reference points”. The idea of using badly mixed songs is brilliant, that’s the kind of thinking I was looking for. That seems like a really efficient way to figure out differences. In a way that was the use case for ”Little Things” without knowing what I was doing

Merry Christmas!

P.S. Let me know when it’s time to explore one of the Audeze’s, I’d love to do a comparison with the Ananda Nano

Id love to get a specific review of the LCD-X to be honest but as you pointed out, it’s Christmas and Santa not only bought a brand new TV for my wife’s daughters but also brought bad news this year.
See, I’m allowed to be on the Colombian territory for 180 days per year. I thought that was from my date of entry to my date of exit. Apparently it’s from Jan 1st to Dec 31st each year. So as a result, I got told my immigration that I will be overstaying on December 28th and need to leave the country to come back next year.

So I’ll be in Ecuador, alone, this year for NYE and the trip was not cheap as it was last minute.

But I would love to get a review of the LCD-X vs the Nanos as I’m still wondering if that’s my next step up…. Or if I should invest in a topping A30pro + HE6se v2. Or maybe the HE1000se…or an electrostatic? (But that’s big big money for something decent that has bass extension)

All of those buying ideas will obviously need to wait until I get back home in Montreal in late March which is a good thing as I tend to have a very lightweight index on the click when I get drunk.

Merry Christmas

 

[HardstyleLoco96]

Is the Nano indeed useless without EQ ?

No. Most of the time, I actually don't use eq. But I also eq every headphone I use. Iems are simply better tuned than headphones. So does the Nano need eq? No. To my ear, I love how they sound stock. But can it be bright for some. 100% yes. But for me. A HD800s or DT1990 pro are more fatiguing and piercing to my ear.

 

[TheR0v3r]

Id love to get a specific review of the LCD-X to be honest but as you pointed out, it’s Christmas and Santa not only bought a brand new TV for my wife’s daughters but also brought bad news this year.
See, I’m allowed to be on the Colombian territory for 180 days per year. I thought that was from my date of entry to my date of exit. Apparently it’s from Jan 1st to Dec 31st each year. So as a result, I got told my immigration that I will be overstaying on December 28th and need to leave the country to come back next year.

So I’ll be in Ecuador, alone, this year for NYE and the trip was not cheap as it was last minute.

But I would love to get a review of the LCD-X vs the Nanos as I’m still wondering if that’s my next step up…. Or if I should invest in a topping A30pro + HE6se v2. Or maybe the HE1000se…or an electrostatic? (But that’s big big money for something decent that has bass extension)

All of those buying ideas will obviously need to wait until I get back home in Montreal in late March which is a good thing as I tend to have a very lightweight index on the click when I get drunk.

Merry Christmas

That does sound like bad news, hope you get everything sorted. I feel your pain with those last minute trips. The younger me enjoyed the last minute bargains to anywhere but now they always tend to be (overly) expensive trips to specific destinations in order to attend to ”family emergencies” of different sorts.

Anyway, here I’m taking a break from the Christmas festivities by listening to some music. One album I decided to play was ”Homegenic” by Björk. It’s fantastic but I’ve always found it a little difficult to ”get”. Today was the first time I heard it with the Ananda Nano’s and with the EQ you made - it sounds amazing!

I know that the first track, ”Hunter”, is an audiophile stable but I’ve had a hard time embracing it. Today it made total sense with it’s mix of electronic and traditional instruments, the different effects on Björk’s voice etc. Wow!

 

[martel80]

That does sound like bad news, hope you get everything sorted. I feel your pain with those last minute trips. The younger me enjoyed the last minute bargains to anywhere but now they always tend to be (overly) expensive trips to specific destinations in order to attend to ”family emergencies” of different sorts.

Anyway, here I’m taking a break from the Christmas festivities by listening to some music. One album I decided to play was ”Homegenic” by Björk. It’s fantastic but I’ve always found it a little difficult to ”get”. Today was the first time I heard it with the Ananda Nano’s and with the EQ you made - it sounds amazing!

I know that the first track, ”Hunter”, is an audiophile stable but I’ve had a hard time embracing it. Today it made total sense with it’s mix of electronic and traditional instruments, the different effects on Björk’s voice etc. Wow!

Yeah it’s quite a failure. I was finishing my French Canadian inspired Christmas meal with a 3 recipe dessert meal and the ice cream was completely melted . Complete failure . I’m so fawking pissed right now. Drinking my frustration away while I’m writing this.

Bjork is an incredible artist . Sit right between pop clean mix and hip hop sample based flavourful music. She’s the type of artist I don’t blame for being a weirdo . Not sure she’s producing or coproducting her records but if she do, whao!! She’s like a massive attack with wicked inspiration. Love her, really . I’ll put her tidal albums in my tidal listening song while I’m in Guayaquil. Sounds like a “on point » album for my situation. Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Toriga]

Can you give me your eq for equalizer apo?
I dont use fabfilter.