[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_teres I am the engineer/repair for Coinstar ... I make vending machines and money changers for non-us coins too. The amps sound very good to me but are the for the real truth real. I can see the truth

Just to be clear, are you saying that you opened up your amp, traced the circuit, and found it identical to the Morgan Jones schematic posted at Headwize?
http://www.headwize.com/projects/sho...=cmoy5_prj.htm

 

[purk]

This thread gets my vote for the worst thread in Headfi's history.!

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy The Headwize circuit is just a classic White follower. It's nothing new; it's been around since the late '60s. There's nothing to steal -- all it would mean is that the designer just followed a standard cookbook circuit and turned it into a profitable company. I personally doubt Mikhail ever tried patenting any of this. All that was likely just bluster to prevent reviewers from posting pictures of the insides (see the 6moons review, for instance). You are probably right about the potential legal ramifications for misrepresenting the contents of the amplifiers, though. People felt they were getting a Class A, single-ended amplifier, and it was advertised as such.

Ok, I don't pretend to understand tube circuitry or patent laws, I was just under the impression that designs posted to headwize could not be lifted and turned into profitable production ventures (assuming this happened). I was also unaware that such things could be patented. Of course, this all assumes that Singlepower really did lift these designs, which we still have no solid evidence for. I'd really like to see full images of the internals now, and let people better versed in electronics and schematics than I judge.

 

[purk]

Quote:

Ok, I don't pretend to understand tube circuitry or patent laws, I was just under the impression that designs posted to headwize could not be lifted and turned into profitable production ventures (assuming this happened). I was also unaware that such things could be patented. Of course, this all assumes that Singlepower really did lift these designs, which we still have no solid evidence for. I'd really like to see full images of the internals now, and let people better versed in electronics and schematics than I judge.

This legal stuff is beyond me. We really should stop talking about it. Speaking of it will only create more negative impact to Singlepower. Don't assume, b/c you don't know it.

 

[comabereni]

Quote:

Originally Posted by purk This legal stuff is beyond me. We really should stop talking about it. Speaking of it will only create more negative impact to Singlepower. Don't assume, b/c you don't know it.

Some forum members here are actually carrying on a reasonable line of inquiry. Mikhail agreed to follow this thread and answer questions he deemed worthwhile. If Singlepower has been forthright in their claims and member/owner concerns only come down to design decisions, then Singlepower will continue to have demand for their products and a lot more respect for taking on the difficult questions that have been posed here. And perhaps the design and layout will improve. If there have been deceptions, or lapse in professional ethics, then the outcome of that will be equally deserved. As a potential customer, I want to know if I'm buying what what has been advertised, what potential design problems might exist, and even if it is safe to use seeing the potential problems with unsecured components inside the chassis.

 

[Rob N]

I hope discussions of other manufacturers amps are just as rigorous;are they a legitimate company,have they got CE or equivalent certification,is the operation of the amp as they say (Class A etc),have they 'stolen' the design from somewhere else,close ups of p2p or circuit boards,is there any potetential for electric shock or fire hazard,is it 100% safe.All these points have been raised here and it would then at least make it a level playing field.

Oh I nearly forgot.....last and obviously least sound quality

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneeyedhobbit . Re the persecution, give me a break team Singlepower--you say that this thread is pathetic, but consumers don't have a right to complain about shoddy worksmanship before we're part of some vast conspiracy and witch hunt? I've said it before and probably will have to again--what a joke.

There have been excesses on both sides of the debate. People have tended to get defensive when legitimate questions have been raised, but on the other side there is some rampant speculation and a little bit of a feeding frenzy. Neither side is or has been entirely objective, which is unfortunate. But let's do our best.

 

[raaj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sygyzy Even if it is a copy, nothing will be pinned on him or the company. Why? Because 1) the average joe does not understand circuits or audio technology. Myself included. So, you can throw in some tech speak justifying why it's a copied design or why it's not a copy since it's a modification, etc. 2) Isn't everything really a copied design/modification. I mean you can take it as far as you want. Planes of today are vastly different than the ones the Wright Brothers made. You can say they are a copy, except now we have turbine engines, and better materials, and ... Ray can just say "Yes that is a MINT but I modified so it's not a MINT anymore. And the MINT was a copy too of..."

So where does that leave the innuendos that Mikhail copied a design from Head-wize and may be unethically profiting from it?? I didn't expect you to come up with this kind of rebuttal when Mikhail was accused of the very same thing.. but would you give Mikhail the benefit of doubt on the whole 'Head-wize heist' innuendo??

I agree that the innards of the MPX3 are not the most aesthetically pleasing, and may also be potentially hazardous, but hey, is there anyone living in a freight car or a dune buggy in the Sahara to shake things up so much as to untangle all the wiring joints in SinglePower amps?? Are people being paranoid to the point of being at fault ??

But, out of all this heated discussion, I sincerely hope Mikhail could get cues to improve the layout to better address safety and durability concerns.. I however do not doubt Mikhail when he says his design philosophy while being aesthetically challenged, is what gives his amps their reputation of being one of the finest sounding amps out there..

Peace out !!

 

[Tuberoller]

This thread stays on topic. you want to discuss the SR-71,start another thread and do so freely.

 

[Wodgy]

As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with implementing a generic White cathode follower, as shown in the Headwize library.

There IS something wrong with allegedly claiming your amp has a topology that it doesn't have (single-ended) and runs in a more ideal class than it does (Class A versus Class A/B).

If Ray Samuels had claimed for months that the output stage of the SR-71 ran in class A and we found that it wasn't, you bet we'd be complaining about that. I sure would.

 

[raaj]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy As I've said before, there's nothing wrong with implementing a generic White cathode follower, as shown in the Headwize library. There IS something wrong with allegedly claiming your amp has a topology that it doesn't have (single-ended) and runs in a more ideal class than it does (Class A versus Class A/B). If Ray Samuels had claimed for months that the output stage of the SR-71 ran in class A and we found that it wasn't, you bet we'd be complaining about that. I sure would.

So, let's concentrate the efforts on emphatically ascertaining if the SinglePower amps are True Class A or not..

I do not have the expertise to do the investigation, but someone who does, please do us all a favor and end this controversy about Class A Vs. Class A/B..

In the interest of 'finding the ultimate truth', is anyone of your electrical engineering wizards willing to take on this burden of proof?? I don't expect Mikhail to come out with explanation defending why he calls his amps Class A. Anyone making the accusations should be willing to show conclusive proofs behind their accusations. So, it's either cough-up or shut-up.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raaj So, let's concentrate the efforts on emphatically ascertaining if the SinglePower amps are True Class A or not.. I do not have the expertise to do the investigation, but someone who does, please do us all a favor and end this controversy about Class A Vs. Class A/B..

Mikhail could do us all a favor by coming clean about this very question. It would be best to hear it from the horse's mouth.

Barring that, we'll have to wait for someone to trace the circuit of their amp (and be willing to come forward about it) or wait for someone to post more complete pictures of an amp's internals. This will happen sooner or later. There are too many amps out there for us not to eventually find out the truth.

 

[bln]

Days of heated debate, and still no more specific photographs? Why doesn't lextek take some wide-angle shots to confirm what we're actually looking at?

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raaj Are people being paranoid to the point of being at fault ??

Paranoid no but certainly inquisitive and they have every right to ask serious questions given the circumstances. Remember, this is not some old scrap heap amp that Mikhail is giving away as a freebie to people........ people pay good money for this amp and they are led to believe that this is some state of the art p2p construction blah blah........ hmmm I went to copy the exact quote from the singlepower website just there but it has temporarily disappeared

EDIT: the site has now reappeared

Anyways, if I had bought one of these amps going on the description alone I'd be very pissed off with the construction.... far from state of the art.

 

[setmenu]

I have been following the twists and turns of this thread, and to be honest
I feel sorry for poor Mikhail, yeah his product may have it,s faults real or
imagined, and I am sure he will do his best to revise or rectify things where
economically viable or necessary.
No product is ever perfect or 100% reliable and no one is ever forced into
purchasing it.
From what I understand this product is infact considered good sounding!

Perhaps , dare i say it, a fresh thread that rationally deals with the facts of the matter may actually result in something positive for all parties concerned.

At the end of the day this is only an amplifier made in limited quantitys for the small amount of people who actually appreciate high quality headphone listening.
It would be sad loss if there were one less manufacture too choose from in this
rarefied world....

Keep some perspective for pity's sake!


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