[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealric /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've done about 35 interviews in the last two years, and I've been asked about my GPA/grades on at least 10 of them (both positive and negative comments). One interviewer even asked if I was a high school valedictorian. Sorry you aren't happy about things. At the same time, could the sentiment be at least in some part due to the fact that we are in the middle of finals right now?

law school costs too much and teaches too little. The likelihood of someone finding a job that will enable him/her to pay back the $160k debt after law school goes from somewhat bad -> bad -> pretty bad -> virtually impossible -> no chance at all, depending on the school and the person's class rank of course.

The same can be said about the B schools. Their saving grace is that there is no additional hoops to jump through after graduation, and it's only 2 years.

I am speaking in a very broad and general sense and this is not directed toward any particular institution or individual.

 

[nealric]

Quote:

law school costs too much and teaches too little. The likelihood of someone finding a job that will enable him/her to pay back the $160k debt after law school goes from somewhat bad -> bad -> pretty bad -> virtually impossible -> no chance at all, depending on the school and the person's class rank of course.

I think you are being a touch pessimistic. There a lot of law school scenarios where the financial risk/reward factor is sub-optimal, but I don't think that's an indictment of the entire system. As long as you go prestigious and/or go cheap, you will be fine in the end.

FWIW: I feel like I have learned a ton in law school.

 

[MomijiTMO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh yeah, when choosing an intern or trainee, I only would choose those that put forth 100% effort at everything. Not when they felt they wanted to.

Ahh this is different. I put 100% effort into work. It's a completely different thing to me and I'm sure others will understand where I'm coming from. I do see what you are saying but I can't really change the way I approach things.

So I'll be a good find for some company next year but as you say, most will laugh at my grades [which aren't bad but are not the best I could do].
Quote:

Originally Posted by nealric /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've done about 35 interviews in the last two years, and I've been asked about my GPA/grades on at least 10 of them (both positive and negative comments). One interviewer even asked if I was a high school valedictorian.

If I were an interviewer, I'd ask about your GPA but you might not pick the candidate with the highest [obviously]. The valedictorian question is quite funny. What if you went to a tiny school where most of your peers were below average? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealric /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you are being a touch pessimistic. There a lot of law school scenarios where the financial risk/reward factor is sub-optimal, but I don't think that's an indictment of the entire system. As long as you go prestigious and/or go cheap, you will be fine in the end.

Obviously speaking from the Australian perspective but law is one of those professions where you don't really do well until you are older. I currently have a casual job in a career consultancy firm and we get a lot of late 20s law students who want out because of the average pay and long hours.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealric /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you are being a touch pessimistic. There a lot of law school scenarios where the financial risk/reward factor is sub-optimal, but I don't think that's an indictment of the entire system. As long as you go prestigious and/or go cheap, you will be fine in the end. FWIW: I feel like I have learned a ton in law school.

Going to law school? Proceed with caution because law school law school is, for 90% of the students, always a bad choice from an investment perspective. Unfortunately, a lot of people choose to see what they want to see.

A J.D. used to mean a first-class seat on the gravy train. Now? Not so much. Critics say law schools have a duty to warn.

+ YouTube Video​

ERROR: If you can see this, then YouTube is down or you don't have Flash installed.

 

[skyline889]

It depends on what you plan on getting out of it. Stating that only 23% of the '08 graduating class received starting salaries of $160k seems a bit pretentious. Sure, that doesn't represent the average salary across the board but for only 3 years of grad school, a quarter of the class starting at $160k seems pretty good compared to other fields. A general practitioner or ped will be making similar money but they've spent 4 years in med school and 3-4 years completing their residency. MBA grads will have spent 2 years in grad school and (Assuming he/she attended a tier 1) they'll only be starting at around $90-120k.

Law these days is like any other field, highly competitive. Sure law schools are cranking out tons of lawyers but that doesn't mean someone should just give up their dreams and pursue another field. Also, not everyone dreams of one day becoming a partner and raking in $500k+ a year; some people don't even intend to go into private practice and don't want to start out as associates (And not everyone attends tier one law schools and pays $40-55k a year in tuition). There are jobs with the Feds and the State that pay decently and offer decent benefits (Feds more so than with the state) and this is enough for a lot of people. My dad chose to go this way in order to have more time to spend with his family and for the most part, he's been fine with his decision.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyline889 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It depends on what you plan on getting out of it. Stating that only 23% of the '08 graduating class received starting salaries of $160k seems a bit pretentious.

23% of the graduates who actually bothered to respond to the survey [hint: reporting is totally voluntary and most don't report - probably too embarrassed either because they made too little or they have no job]

I think realistically only 5% of all law school graduates will make the top salary. Vast majority will make somewhere between 30-80k; many will make 0.

 

[Judge Buff]

Beyond moderate qualifications for a position, I've always looked for personality and the ability to think on your feet. I've hired and fired professionals from accountants to physicians. Anyone can be educated, but good personalities are intrinsic and rare.

Incredible GRE (and such) scores trump a 4.0 for grad school.
Good interviewers can spot a phony in a heartbeat.
If job offers aren't forthcoming, stay in school.

If the stress of this episode of your life is getting to you, you might want to talk to a physician about anti-depressants or anxiolytic medication. You appear to be 'wound a little too tight" based on the fact that you have put yourself out here like this.

Just sayin'...

 

[nealric]

Quote:

Going to law school? Proceed with caution because law school law school is, for 90% of the students, always a bad choice from an investment perspective. Unfortunately, a lot of people choose to see what they want to see.

Cheesebert, that video was priceless. Thank you for that

 

[Kirosia]

So I'm graduating... tomorrow. With all the BS that happened this semester, I really don't want to go the ceremony. Because of my own idiocy, my own GPA went from a 3.8 to a 3.6 (a damn joke), I've made enemies of my entire International Management class, and have just regained a hatred for people as a whole. 

 

[balderon]

IMO you'll be spiting (ahh not spitting

) yourself if you decide to skip the ceremony. One day you'll look back and think I was silly not to go. Get going and enjoy the fruits of your labor.

 

[dreamwhisper]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago.
I was high school valedictorian and went right to University without learning the life habits/skills required. This is because I smoked a lot of pot in high school and disregarded a lot of these details.
 after high school I took 2 years off and then went to a music school for 2 years... after 4 years spent more about myself, I am now ready to go back to university and give it another shot.
 
I will likely have to take out a loan but I'm willing to because I think It's important to get an education for more than the grades/status/money. People who have degrees think differently...

 

[jjinh]

Quote:

So I'm graduating... tomorrow. With all the BS that happened this semester, I really don't want to go the ceremony. Because of my own idiocy, my own GPA went from a 3.8 to a 3.6 (a damn joke), I've made enemies of my entire International Management class, and have just regained a hatred for people as a whole. 

Congrats! Dont you have to say whether you're attending or not before the date of the ceremony?
 
I didnt go to my last graduation ceremony as I didnt think it was worth it, but I'd already graduated twice before that. If it was my first graduation ceremony I certainly would have attended.
 
And you've just got yourself a nice new suit and all - go!

 

[Kirosia]

I'm not really sure, I think I just have to show up. My last ceremony was in 8th grade, never crossed the stage in HS. My niece (who's graduating also) keeps telling me I should go, but I dunno. Gotta make a decision before tonight. 

 

[El_Doug]

as far as undergraduate graduation ceremonies go, my mother didnt attend hers, my father didnt attend his, my wife didnt attend hers, and I didnt attend mine. 
 
if you think it sounds like FUN to sit outside in the heat for 4 hours while a bunch of old people ramble on, just so you can get 10 seconds of time for them to say your name, then go ahead.  i'm sure glad I didnt go

 

[DeusEx]

I won't be attending part of mine (hs), because I'll be on a plane to Europe. And possibly Japan. And Down Under. =0  Then it's onto higher education.