Impedance optimization
Aug 22, 2009 at 7:54 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 35

Mediahound

Headphoneus Supremus
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I've been reading a bit on impedance optimization through resistance, and how it can affect the sound signature and synergy of headphones (see bottom section here - http://www.meier-audio.homepage.t-on...tipstricks.htm )

My question is; why has someone not invented some sort of a box that would go between the amp and headphone cable which would allow the user to vary the resistance while listening to dial in the ideal sound?
 
Aug 22, 2009 at 9:23 PM Post #2 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by phototristan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've been reading a bit on impedance optimization through resistance, and how it can affect the sound signature and synergy of headphones (see bottom section here - Meier Audio )

My question is; why has someone not invented some sort of a box that would go between the amp and headphone cable which would allow the user to vary the resistance while listening to dial in the ideal sound?



Because I'm still deciding on what rotary switch to use, how many positions, and what resistance values to use.
atsmile.gif


Seriously.

After reading about the adapters I made for iPodPJ, a member here asked me to make some 70 ohm adapters for him. Though he wanted them not for 300 ohm Sennheisers, but for some 25 ohm AKGs and I'm not so sure 70 ohms would give a good result with such low impedance headphones.

So I got thinking of making a box like you describe where people could select between a number of different resistance values and dial in the one that works best for them and their headphones.

However I wasn't looking at the box being the solution, but rather just a tool. Once the value was selected, then that value would be used to make a fixed, inline adapter which would be much less messy than a separate box. The box could then be sent along to someone else for the same purpose and so on.

k
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 12:01 AM Post #4 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Though he wanted them not for 300 ohm Sennheisers, but for some 25 ohm AKGs and I'm not so sure 70 ohms would give a good result with such low impedance headphones.


Well, it would be more like 60 Ohms (62 to be exact) of the "bass shy" K701, but I do agree this is a great idea.
k701smile.gif


...definitely better than my alternative idea of three or more adapters (30, 60, 90... Ohms).

Go for it K

V3
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 7:10 AM Post #7 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You know, what y'all really outta be doing is pressuring amp manufacturers to offer selectable output impedance on their amps.
atsmile.gif


k



I second this nomination and might modify my Phoenix to do just that with a switch. Of course if I do, guess who's going to be doing the modification?
wink_face.gif
That's right. YOU.

Great idea on the impedance selector box. It would be a valuable tool for us to share. You'll have to make one for balanced headphones and one for single-ended phones, unless you could combine it all in one box, which I'm sure is a piece of cake for you.
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 7:47 AM Post #8 of 35
There have been such products. I believe that Eddie Current offered one for a bit as well as Antique Sound Labs. I think people didn't quite understand them and they didn't sell many.

If you want to experiment with variable resistance, get a decade box. Well, you'd need two of them for stereo. Anyhow, a decade box has several pots and a bunch of resistors. It lets you dial in the precise amount of resistance you want. Once you know how much you need, you can build a permanent box with fixed resistors.

Another solution is using an autoformer. It's a specialized transformer that matches impedance. There's one on the market called the Zero that's marketed towards speakers. The problem with those for headphones is that headphone amps don't put out much power. All transformers eat power when you run a signal through them, so something like the Zero would sharply cut what gets through to headphones. Speakers aren't a big deal since a power amp will give you, say, 50W. A little loss isn't that noticeable. However, when you put, for example, 350mW into one, you are really going to notice the loss of power. A better solution is just to put an appropriate output transformer into the amp to begin with.

A few amps offer selectable impedance. The latest Zana Deux has an impedance switch as does Donald North's Sonett. If you DIY, Sowter makes a couple of output transformers with several common impedance outputs. I bought a pair of them for my upcoming 45-based build. It'll have a rotary switch so I can match at (IIRC), 30, 60, 120, and 300 Ohms. You can also have a custom output transformer with multiple taps wound by Electra-Print, Edcor and a few others.

Finally, you could try adapting a balun for headphone use. Baluns are commonly used to match impedance between a radio transmitter and an antenna. Hams use them all the time to maximize output and minimize reflected energy for their broadcasts. I don't know if the technology would lend itself to audiophilia, but it certainly works in radio.
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 3:21 PM Post #9 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by IPodPJ /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I second this nomination and might modify my Phoenix to do just that with a switch. Of course if I do, guess who's going to be doing the modification?
wink_face.gif
That's right. YOU.



Uh... ME!?

Sorry man, but I'd already made plans to be laid up in the hospital in a full body cast that day.
atsmile.gif


Quote:

Great idea on the impedance selector box. It would be a valuable tool for us to share. You'll have to make one for balanced headphones and one for single-ended phones, unless you could combine it all in one box, which I'm sure is a piece of cake for you.


Only if it's chocolate cake.
atsmile.gif


k
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 4:17 PM Post #10 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There have been such products. I believe that Eddie Current offered one for a bit as well as Antique Sound Labs. I think people didn't quite understand them and they didn't sell many.


I can relate to that.

Some years back I was making a ground isolation unit, which was essentially a nice box with a pair of high quality input transformers in it.

Even though my website explained in great detail what it did, I'd still get phone calls and EMails from people asking "What's it do?"

*sigh*

Quote:

If you want to experiment with variable resistance, get a decade box. Well, you'd need two of them for stereo.


And four for balanced stereo.

Quote:

Another solution is using an autoformer. It's a specialized transformer that matches impedance.


Not quite. An autoformer is an autoformer, not a specialized transformer that matches impedance.

An autoformer functions just like a transformer, except that it uses one winding, instead of two (in essence, it's just an inductor with one or more taps). And just like a transformer, it has no intrinsic impedance of its own, but rather, it reflects impedances as a function of the square of the turns ratio. And just like a transformer, it can step up the signal or step down the signal as a function of the turns ratio.

The only fundamental difference between an autoformer and and a transformer is that they're a bit simpler to make as they only have one winding, and because they only have one winding they can't provide the ground isolation that a transformer can.

Quote:

There's one on the market called the Zero that's marketed towards speakers. The problem with those for headphones is that headphone amps don't put out much power. All transformers eat power when you run a signal through them, so something like the Zero would sharply cut what gets through to headphones. Speakers aren't a big deal since a power amp will give you, say, 50W. A little loss isn't that noticeable. However, when you put, for example, 350mW into one, you are really going to notice the loss of power.


A properly designed autoformer or transformer won't eat up much power at all. While there are some losses due to the core, the main power loss mechanism in an autoformer or transformer is the winding resistances. But if the transformer's designed properly (basically using sufficiently large gauge wire to keep the winding resistance to a minimum) the power loss will be negligible.

In any case, you wouldn't want to use an autoformer or a transformer for the purpose of increasing the output impedance of an amplifier. Because to do so means the autoformer or transformer needs to function as a step-up.

Let's take PJ's case as an example.

I believe the Phoenix specs its output impedance as 3 ohms. And let's assume that PJ wants to step that up to the 100 ohms that he's using now.

As mentioned previously, an autoformer or transformer reflects imedances as the square of the turns ratio. 100 divided by 3 is 33.33. The square root of 33.33 is 5.77. So in order to turn that 3 ohms into 100 ohms, you'd need a step up autoformer or transformer with a turns ratio of 1:5.77.

Not so bad in and of itself.

However the problem arises when you consider the fact that autoformers and transformers don't reflect impedances in just one direction, but bi-directionally.

Looking from the output of the headphone amp toward the headphones, you have a step up function. But looking back the other way, from the headphones to the headphone amp, you have a step down function, and instead of increasing the impedance by the square of the turns ratio, you decrease the impedance by the square of the turns ratio.

So instead of the Phoenix seeing PJ's 300 ohm Sennheisers as 300 ohms, it will see them as 300 ohms divided by 33.33, or just 9 ohms.

So no, an autoformer or transformer wouldn't be the thing to use for increasing the output impedance of a headphone amp. Best thing for that is good ol' simple resistance.

Quote:

Finally, you could try adapting a balun for headphone use. Baluns are commonly used to match impedance between a radio transmitter and an antenna. Hams use them all the time to maximize output and minimize reflected energy for their broadcasts. I don't know if the technology would lend itself to audiophilia, but it certainly works in radio.


The technology of the balun is the same as that of an autoformer or transformer. That's because that's what most every balun is, an autoformer or transformer. Only that they're designed for use at radio frequencies.

k
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 6:23 PM Post #11 of 35
Great idea about the box "K". I would be interested in one if you do make a few.

I think that impedance matching is a huge issue with headphones. I think many of us write off gear as bad, when really it's just a mismatch between amp and phone. The one size fits all approach of some amp makers is just not good enough.

Since getting Donald North's amp a month or so ago, I've come to really appreciate the impedance switch. It can make a phone go from decent to great. For someone like me who likes Sennheiser's and Denon's, I'm finding this to be an essential option.
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 7:43 PM Post #12 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyaan I. Sqatsi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not quite. An autoformer is an autoformer, not a specialized transformer that matches impedance.


Very interesting!
smily_headphones1.gif
Now off to do more reading!
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 8:12 PM Post #13 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very interesting!
smily_headphones1.gif
Now off to do more reading!



Although it doesn't say anything about autoformers, if you want to know more about transformers, give this a read. It's chapter 11 from Glen Ballou's Handbook for Sound Engineers, and was written by Bill Whitlock of Jensen Transformers.

Audio Transformers

k
 
Aug 23, 2009 at 9:00 PM Post #14 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by santacore /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Great idea about the box "K". I would be interested in one if you do make a few.


Thanks. Still mulling over how best to make it useful yet practical and economical.

I'm thinking it's perhaps not so critical to maintain balance by using two resistors per channel in order to evaluate output impedance. Having to switch two resistors per channel for each selection makes things a lot more messy than switching just one resistor per channel.

I'm hoping for something simple enough that it can all be wired up on a panel and then make a simple wood box to mount it in. I have some 150 year old reclaimed barn wood here I've been looking to use for some project or other. Perhaps this could be it.
atsmile.gif


k
 

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