[dcime]

Too late. As I wrote earlier, I returned the device to Amazon already and definitively will not buy it again. It was too underwhelming for me.

I appreciate your honest & subjective opinion!

 

[fonkepala]

Too late. As I wrote earlier, I returned the device to Amazon already and definitively will not buy it again. It was too underwhelming for me.

Just curious, what headphones do you use as to find the Zen underwhelming/powerless? They must be very demanding indeed!

 

[dodap]

Just curious, what headphones do you use as to find the Zen underwhelming/powerless? They must be very demanding indeed!

The Tin Hifi P1 was the most demanding. My Oppo PM3 was easy to drive. as where my other IEMs too. But I prefer my tiny Atom and my old Meier Headfive as pure headphone amps.

 

[dcime]

The Tin Hifi P1 was the most demanding. My Oppo PM3 was easy to drive. as where my other IEMs too. But I prefer my tiny Atom and my old Meier Headfive as pure headphone amps.

You are not in this class of buyers are you?? This is for ENTRY level people looking to get a taste of what's available. Someone with your experience should rather purchase the iFi Audio xDSD DAC rather than setting a mistaken subjective president comparing apple's to oranges. And thusly, confusing all the NEW people at the same time.
BTW, that's exactly why I have not purchased the Zen DAC.

 

[claud W]

Oh, I don't know about that. I too have been looking for a cheap Tidal & Masters solution for my beach home. I also have a set of Oppo PM3s which I think will do quite nicely. If the hurricane come, I'll take my Apple iMac and boogey.

 

[dodap]

You are not in this class of buyers are you?? This is for ENTRY level people looking to get a taste of what's available.

Indeed, this was meant for me as the minimum entry into desktop MQA. Not really neccessary for me as my Pioneer XDP-100R can already play MQA. But I was not willing to spend more money than neccessary on a MQA capable DAC than for this indeed cheap ifi DAC (I never intended to use it's headphone amp anyway). As you probably have guessed already I do not care that much for all those super HiRes files and playback systems. And therefore I do not belong to those that expect that much from this new very controversial file format. It was a cheap trial for me. Something to forget very fast so to say.

 

[dcime]

Oh, I don't know about that. I too have been looking for a cheap Tidal & Masters solution for my beach home. I also have a set of Oppo PM3s which I think will do quite nicely. If the hurricane come, I'll take my Apple iMac and boogey.

Please don’t confuse cheap with advanced. The Zen DAC is cheap and not very advanced. Now MQA, that is an advanced file format. Compare PCM and MQA side by side. The winner is always MQA. That’s not my opinion only, but the thousands upon thousands of original artists that too appreciate the MQA format for their own work.

 

[claud W]

Please don’t confuse cheap with advanced. The Zen DAC is cheap and not very advanced. Now MQA, that is an advanced file format. Compare PCM and MQA side by side. The winner is always MQA. That’s not my opinion only, but the thousands upon thousands of original artists that too appreciate the MQA format for their own work.

I do not think I said "advanced". I said cheap and at $129 for a desk top solution that can do MQA, show me another one near that price point.My good Tidal MQA DAC is VERY advanced as DACs go, but anything but cheap or even affordable. I am just hoping for a decent sounding DAC that can also do MQA so I can occasionally enjoy Tidal and Masters when I want to at the beach.

 

[dodap]

... Compare PCM and MQA side by side. The winner is always MQA. That’s not my opinion only, but the thousands upon thousands of original artists that too appreciate the MQA format for their own work.

Yes, meanwhile MQA has gained some support, especially among original artists. But whether that has something to do with a really "better" file format and production process is questionable. Very often the "new" thing gets a upper hand because it has marketing advantages. Because it simply sells better. In pop for instance we had years of compression and loudness wars. Not because this was or is true HiFi but mainly because it helped to get followers in the streaming world (and cars I presume). A format that makes money must not per se be the better sounding one.
I just read in another forum that a thread on MQA in another one meanwhile reached some 18.000 posts! It has become more of a religious fight than the attempt to get "better" music, I am afraid.

 

[dcime]

Yes, meanwhile MQA has gained some support, especially among original artists. But whether that has something to do with a really "better" file format and production process is questionable. Very often the "new" thing gets a upper hand because it has marketing advantages. Because it simply sells better. In pop for instance we had years of compression and loudness wars. Not because this was or is true HiFi but mainly because it helped to get followers in the streaming world (and cars I presume). A format that makes money must not per se be the better sounding one.
I just read in another forum that a thread on MQA in another one meanwhile reached some 18.000 posts! It has become more of a religious fight than the attempt to get "better" music, I am afraid.

It’s also pretty great that it takes up less space without, apparently, any loss of quality. Tidal is right now the only online company using MQA. So I know Jay Z and Beyoncé are happy. But seriously, is it such a bad idea to welcome a new, yessssss, lossy format that is so very much true to the sound? I know that’s not an issue, but how you receive it is. I’m not sure who has tried the iFI xDSD or even the Audioquest Dragonfly Red, however, they both put out a pretty strong source that so far as many can tell, is lossy but with the line blurred between lossless. And I’m not religious.

 

[dodap]

It’s also pretty great that it takes up less space without, apparently, any loss of quality. Tidal is right now the only online company using MQA. So I know Jay Z and Beyoncé are happy. But seriously, is it such a bad idea to welcome a new, yessssss, lossy format that is so very much true to the sound? I know that’s not an issue, but how you receive it is. I’m not sure who has tried the iFI xDSD or even the Audioquest Dragonfly Red, however, they both put out a pretty strong source that so far as many can tell, is lossy but with the line blurred between lossless. And I’m not religious.

Not from me but from Amir, the guy at audiosciencereview who insists on measuring everything (from a thread about the new SMSL M500 DAC+Amp that also supports MQA):

"Before you can launch a new commercial format, you need to satisfy the labels. For whatever reason, they have encoded their files at 192 kHz. And such, the requirement is to deliver the same. Maybe they encoded it at 192 kHz because they think the user will value it more. Or they did it due to audio folklore. It doesn't matter. If the technical guy at Warner doesn't give you the green light, you don't get the support of that label.
Likewise, an operator like Tidal wants to light up the highest sample rate they can. They don't want to be lower sample rates than a competitor can.
MQA enables this and that is why it has gotten the design wins. You have to meet the needs of the stakeholders.
This is why I keep saying the discussions around a new format like MQA must include points other than technical.
Let's remember that the motivation here is to charge consumers more for high-res. And high sample rate support is a requirement.
Long time ago I said if someone can modify flac to downsample, compress and then upsample back to higher sample rate, they would have a nice competitor to MQA. Has anyone lifted a finger to do that? No. They don't understand the needs of the supply chain, or the end consumer."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-m500-dac-and-hp-amp-review.9606/post-256287

 

[dcime]

Not from me but from Amir, the guy at audiosciencereview who insists on measuring everything (from a thread about the new SMSL M500 DAC+Amp that also supports MQA):

"Before you can launch a new commercial format, you need to satisfy the labels. For whatever reason, they have encoded their files at 192 kHz. And such, the requirement is to deliver the same. Maybe they encoded it at 192 kHz because they think the user will value it more. Or they did it due to audio folklore. It doesn't matter. If the technical guy at Warner doesn't give you the green light, you don't get the support of that label.
Likewise, an operator like Tidal wants to light up the highest sample rate they can. They don't want to be lower sample rates than a competitor can.
MQA enables this and that is why it has gotten the design wins. You have to meet the needs of the stakeholders.
This is why I keep saying the discussions around a new format like MQA must include points other than technical.
Let's remember that the motivation here is to charge consumers more for high-res. And high sample rate support is a requirement.
Long time ago I said if someone can modify flac to downsample, compress and then upsample back to higher sample rate, they would have a nice competitor to MQA. Has anyone lifted a finger to do that? No. They don't understand the needs of the supply chain, or the end consumer."
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...l-m500-dac-and-hp-amp-review.9606/post-256287

That is definitely getting off track and off topic. MQA has a huge crowd of “followers”. What you suggesting accomplishes nothing because the source file will need to expand at the end thus introducing the issues with space requirements.

 

[iFi audio]

It was too underwhelming for me.

We understand it was, but it had nothing to do with the product. It doesn't really matter whether it's our ZEN platform or any other MQA capable DAC, the rule is the same: what comes out of your tablet/smartphone/PC has to be MQA, otherwise you won't get it. Any data manipulation somewhere along the road defeats the purpose of MQA, whereas all our DACs have in-built LEDs to easily indicate whether that's in check. But it's all good, you had the right to return the product.

 

[dodap]

It doesn't really matter whether it's our ZEN platform or any other MQA capable DAC, the rule is the same: what comes out of your tablet/smartphone/PC has to be MQA, otherwise you won't get it.

This was indeed what I expected too. My "only" problem was that I could not get my Windows TIDAL streaming files to trigger MQA whatever I tried. Maybe a misconfiguration of TIDAL, I don't know and I don't care anymore.

 

[iFi audio]

Maybe a misconfiguration of TIDAL, I don't know and I don't care anymore.

Fair enough, thanks for trying the product though!